BillFitzmaurice.info

Not sure if this has been discussed in detail before or not, but I basically want to know what BFM design stomps a JTR Growler.

My real world experience with the Growlers was just recently, I heard 4 coupled in front of a stage in a venue (same stage that I have previously had 4x T48 3015LF @ 24.5" coupled in front of) and they absolutely annihilated the place. Response was full and the bass just really impressed me. I asked the sound guy how everything was configured he had some older crown Macrotechs and he said the subs were limited at 800W HPF@35hz (I believe) and LPF@80hz. but he never gets even close to hitting limit on them.

My T48's sound great and I love them, don't get me wrong. I have them HPF@40-45hz LPF@100hz hard limit at 60V. in a 4x configuration I sometimes bounce off the limiter to get that full 450W into the drivers. The bass is strong and demanding, and I always just figured that I hadn't brought enough low end for the gig. Now, the Growlers got me thinking seriously about my T48's. 15" vs. 12" What am I missing here?

Growlers are not in the same league as T48s. Response wise they're closer to 2x10 T24s. I'd chalk up the difference in how he had them EQ'd. You're probably a little light in the thump region, which isn't centered at 40Hz, it's centered at 60Hz.

Interesting. Obviously I didn't side by side them, so it could have been one of those "grass is greener" phenomenon. I did swap cards with the guy and mentioned side-by-siding the subs. The T48's sounded interesting to him, but he seemed more like the "buy everything" type of people.

I should really get the T48's out and play with the EQ on them. Would bumping the 60hz region up give me what I'm looking for?

djtecthreat wrote: Would bumping the 60hz region up give me what I'm looking for?

Only you can say. But those sliders are there for a reason.

I would expect to hear T48's to out-blast Growlers. And 35hz HPF on Growlers seems a little low, maybe he was @ 45Hz.

LEVLHED wrote:I would expect to hear T48's to out-blast Growlers. And 35hz HPF on Growlers seems a little low, maybe he was @ 45Hz.

In terms of maximum output the Growler could be a bit stronger, as it sacrifices extension for sensitivity, but not by a significant margin. In extension the T48 goes at least 15Hz lower. I agree that 35Hz is a bit low for HP with the Growler, I'd high pass it at 45-50Hz, while with four T48 there's no reason to HP them higher than 35Hz.

I could defintely be wrong about what the highpass was set at on the growlers. I keep my HP higher on the T48's to get a little more head room out of the rig. I'm not really playing anything going that low anyway and livesound almost never drops to 35hz.

In a side-by side with a Growler vs my 30" 3015lf T48, we found the Growler to be naturally tighter sounding and the T48 to be naturally deeper, though more boomy. EQ'ing the rising response of the T48 to a flatter response does help but it doesn't make it perfect. Mine is built out of Auraco though and I've always wondered if Baltic birch might improve the tone by reducing flex and resonance in the cab. Also thought that something like the 18 sound with a higher BL might be tighter and more controlled. On its own though, I'm very, very rarely disappointed in my T48's.

gdougherty wrote:In a side-by side with a Growler vs my 30" 3015lf T48, we found the Growler to be naturally tighter sounding and the T48 to be naturally deeper, though more boomy. EQ'ing the rising response of the T48 to a flatter response does help but it doesn't make it perfect. Mine is built out of Auraco though and I've always wondered if Baltic birch might improve the tone by reducing flex and resonance in the cab. Also thought that something like the 18 sound with a higher BL might be tighter and more controlled. On its own though, I'm very, very rarely disappointed in my T48's.

Another factor is that the Growler has flatter response within its passband, which also is realized at the expense of low end extension. It therefore needs less EQ when used with only one or two cabs. T48 really needs two cabs V coupled to deliver. For that matter most T48 builders who only use two would be better off with a larger number of T39s, but it often comes down to that 'I need to go as low as I can' sentiment that's too seldom confirmed before choosing a design. That's especially true if it's a live sound rig.

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote:Another factor is that the Growler has flatter response within its passband, which also is realized at the expense of low end extension. It therefore needs less EQ when used with only one or two cabs. T48 really needs two cabs V coupled to deliver. For that matter most T48 builders who only use two would be better off with a larger number of T39s, but it often comes down to that 'I need to go as low as I can' sentiment that's too seldom confirmed before choosing a design. That's especially true if it's a live sound rig.

I had 2 reasons for going w/ T48s, one was that when I started building- the 3012LF was not available yet, so the 3015LF was the winner all day. The other reason is- I do 50% live sound work 50% recorded material (being DJ's in clubs and outdoors, sometimes myself). I wanted to be able to drop the HPF down and get that low end extension to give people something no one else is offering (actual bass). I didn't want to be another DJ, happy with 1x18" powered bass cube (JBL, Mackie, etc..) which offer nothing for output and roll off hard at 50hz.

It's also nice that they sit @ 4ft. I can put 2 stacks of 4 on each side of an outdoor stage on top of my 10" plastic pallets, then stack the OT12's on top. No scaffolds, which I would need with T39s.

djtecthreat wrote:

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote:Another factor is that the Growler has flatter response within its passband, which also is realized at the expense of low end extension. It therefore needs less EQ when used with only one or two cabs. T48 really needs two cabs V coupled to deliver. For that matter most T48 builders who only use two would be better off with a larger number of T39s, but it often comes down to that 'I need to go as low as I can' sentiment that's too seldom confirmed before choosing a design. That's especially true if it's a live sound rig.

I had 2 reasons for going w/ T48s, one was that when I started building- the 3012LF was not available yet, so the 3015LF was the winner all day. The other reason is- I do 50% live sound work 50% recorded material (being DJ's in clubs and outdoors, sometimes myself). I wanted to be able to drop the HPF down and get that low end extension to give people something no one else is offering (actual bass). I didn't want to be another DJ, happy with 1x18" powered bass cube (JBL, Mackie, etc..) which offer nothing for output and roll off hard at 50hz.

It's also nice that they sit @ 4ft. I can put 2 stacks of 4 on each side of an outdoor stage on top of my 10" plastic pallets, then stack the OT12's on top. No scaffolds, which I would need with T39s.

Hey do you have any pictures of this setup, if so I'd love to see them

James R wrote:Hey do you have any pictures of this setup, if so I'd love to see them

Hey James, Not of the rig setup, in fact I don't really have any of my T48's after paint. There's a few pics of my tops if you follow the link in my sig.

I promise to get some pics for the forum this spring when I start using the T48's again. They haven't been out in a bit.