BillFitzmaurice.info

Guys,
can you share some info.
SAc vs. DBX and others.

For a limiter it should not make any difference. A limiter is there simply to protect the speaker and should not be engaging much if at all. When the limiter does engage I would prefer it sounds bad so the operator knows to turn it down.

The limiter should be the last thing in the signal chain before the amp. NOTHING in the signal chain past the limiter should be able to increase the signal (except for the amp). That often dictates a hardware based solution (which in the case of digital gear is still a software based solution...).

--Stan Graves

A point I made to someone else recently: A hardware crossover / limiter that has short leads that never come out and aren't subject to stress will protect your speakers not only from dB-happy operators, but also various kinds of equipment failure or careless mistakes. For example (all things that have happened to me at one time or another):

- You accidentally plug a bus output back into a channel feeding that bus and cause an electrical feedback loop. (You'll hit the input level ceiling pretty much instantly. I'm just glad I had my headphones around my neck.)

- You have a cable or jack that's going bad and pops when you wiggle it.

- Someone unplugs a live mic cable with phantom power on it.

- You have a gain knob or pad switch set incorrectly, or you're off by one on your input list, and end up with, e.g., a 20dB hotter signal than you expected.

- You have ground lifts engaged on both ends of an XLR DI connection and end up with a local radio station and ground buzz being amplified by 40dB on a mic input.

Most of these things should never happen, because everyone is always qualified and paying attention, right? Well, it only takes once.

If you consider the speaker management system and the amp as an inseperable pair, these things are annoying and will likely give you a kick in the pants, but probably won't result in blown drivers. If you just assume your source signal will never be higher than some pre-defined level (because your software is capping the signal there), you may end up doing a gig without tweeters. Or subs.

Just something to think about.

SAC is a big investment in hardware and software.

dBx driverack is a very much smaller investment but it won't do 1% of what SAC does.

I have a DCX 2496 right before my amps. It's reassuring to see the amp sensitivity wide open, all the mixer faders up all the way, and the limiter engaged and the amp is clamped to the max voltage I require. If you can get the limiter last before the amp, it seems either would be OK. All I've ever used for live stuff has been hardware for each component, so I have no experience with live software apps for that.

SirNickity wrote:A point I made to someone else recently: A hardware crossover / limiter that has short leads that never come out and aren't subject to stress will protect your speakers not only from dB-happy operators, but also various kinds of equipment failure or careless mistakes. For example (all things that have happened to me at one time or another):

- You accidentally plug a bus output back into a channel feeding that bus and cause an electrical feedback loop. (You'll hit the input level ceiling pretty much instantly. I'm just glad I had my headphones around my neck.)

- You have a cable or jack that's going bad and pops when you wiggle it.

- Someone unplugs a live mic cable with phantom power on it.

- You have a gain knob or pad switch set incorrectly, or you're off by one on your input list, and end up with, e.g., a 20dB hotter signal than you expected.

- You have ground lifts engaged on both ends of an XLR DI connection and end up with a local radio station and ground buzz being amplified by 40dB on a mic input.

Most of these things should never happen, because everyone is always qualified and paying attention, right? Well, it only takes once.

If you consider the speaker management system and the amp as an inseperable pair, these things are annoying and will likely give you a kick in the pants, but probably won't result in blown drivers. If you just assume your source signal will never be higher than some pre-defined level (because your software is capping the signal there), you may end up doing a gig without tweeters. Or subs.

Just something to think about.

to SirNickity
I am noob can you explain more your example. thanks in advance.

You need a limiter. Nothing more to explain.

Gregory East wrote:You need a limiter. Nothing more to explain.

To Greg,
Are you using a SAC as a speaker management? If you do are you comfortable with SAC than hardware?
From what i read SAC is for advance users who knows thier stuff, while entry level hardware based is for basic and simple use.

Gregory East wrote:You need a limiter.

...just before the amp(s).

Gregory East wrote:Nothing more to explain.

The Pro have been addressed...
The Cons: A limiter ( like any other device in the signal stream ) has to be set up and operated correctly or it won't do it's intended function and can really deteriorate the sound.

philrev wrote:

Gregory East wrote:You need a limiter. Nothing more to explain.

To Greg,
Are you using a SAC as a speaker management? NOIf you do are you comfortable with SAC than hardware?
From what i read SAC is for advance users who knows thier stuff, while entry level hardware based is for basic and simple use.

Perhaps if you had an actual use for any of it you might get somewhere asking non questions about it.

Tom Smit wrote:

Gregory East wrote:You need a limiter.

...just before the amp(s).

Gregory East wrote:Nothing more to explain.

Definitely i need a limiter, i thinks there is no more to explain from SirNickity.
Can i use a Roland quadcapture as a speaker limiter using its pre amp compressor?

That would constraint level variation at the input; this is not the same as limiting at the output however.

Not unless it's the last thing before the amp and works in real time.