BillFitzmaurice.info

Hiya.
I'm in a 3 piece band; drums, bass, guitar, 3 vocal. Most of our gigs are pubs and we're setting up with the audience already there and the house music blaring. I'm interested in getting an RTA system but i'm wondering about the practicalities of using it in this environment. How loud does the pink noise (or whatever) need to be to get a useable signal and are we going to annoy the punters using it? Also, whilst we could get the venue to drop their music for a while, is the RTA going to be compromised by the general hubbub of the crowd?
Help would be much appreciated before i spend any money!

It would have to be loud enough to be uncomfortable for the crowd. Take the system outside, set it up, tune it in with an analyzer if you like, but get it where you want it, and then save that data. If you're using analog EQs and crossovers, TAKE A PICTURE. If it's digital... save, save, save (three times, three files, three presets, etc).

That way, you can take it to the gig set up and ready to go, and tweak by ear.

Alistair wrote: is the RTA going to be compromised by the general hubbub of the crowd?

It is. The only way to make it work is to set up off-hours the first time in, saving the settings for that room.

Thanks for the help gents. It sounds like it's not ideally suited for our sort of band. Money saved! Thanks.

Alistair wrote:Thanks for the help gents. It sounds like it's not ideally suited for our sort of band. Money saved! Thanks.

Don't be so hasty!
Unless your ears and pitch picking ability are outta this world...
Your system needs to be tuned first, or when you get to that gig, you will pull your hair out trying to keep up with the EQ and feedback, instead of playing.
At least if it's tuned, you only have to tweak it at the time...

Brent and Bills advice should be taken, since you asked for it

I'm doing sound for a friend's birthday at a bar in town, I've arranged to get in there before the customers purely to use my RTA for the best possible sound. If you're playing the same pubs and clubs it's worth getting in there during the day to set things up and then just save your settings. When you get back you just plug in and go.

itsnew2me wrote:

Alistair wrote:Thanks for the help gents. It sounds like it's not ideally suited for our sort of band. Money saved! Thanks.

Don't be so hasty!
Unless your ears and pitch picking ability are outta this world...
Your system needs to be tuned first, or when you get to that gig, you will pull your hair out trying to keep up with the EQ and feedback, instead of playing.
At least if it's tuned, you only have to tweak it at the time...

Brent and Bills advice should be taken, since you asked for it

Just to reiterate. I'm very grateful for the advice.
Let me explain further in case i sounded a bit abrupt.

We play perhaps 50 different venues a year, often travelling, and i work six days a week. Setting up earlier in the day is out of the question for most gigs.

If it had been something i could have used during set-up and achieved the best eq possible in a matter of minutes then i would be investing in a system.

As that's not viable, i'm going to carry on doing it the old fashioned way, and maybe ask around the local musos to see if i can borrow a system to tune it outdoors as per Brent's suggestion.

Once again, the experts on here have saved me considerable time and expense

Rock on!

Alistair wrote:maybe ask around the local musos to see if i can borrow a system to tune it outdoors as per Brent's suggestion.

This is your best bet then. EQ your kit to as flat as possible then tweak a bit before you play.

88h88 wrote:

Alistair wrote:maybe ask around the local musos to see if i can borrow a system to tune it outdoors as per Brent's suggestion.

This is your best bet then. EQ your kit to as flat as possible then tweak a bit before you play.

+1

Thanks for the clarification Alistair

Exactly. Get your baseline set for your specific rig, and then tweak for feedback and to make your ear happy when you get to the gig.

Is there a general consensus on how to accomodate, EQ wise, the acoustic characteristics of a room with 200 people vs an empty room. I seem to remember this being a consideration.... Empty Room vs People filled room... RTA settings can change?

Hope that sounds like I know what I'm talking about. I have a set of J110's and an all in one Mackie I hope to be using live soon and will have similar situation to sort.

Cheers!

Rickisan wrote:Is there a general consensus on how to accomodate, EQ wise, the acoustic characteristics of a room with 200 people vs an empty room. I seem to remember this being a consideration.... Empty Room vs People filled room... RTA settings can change?

Hope that sounds like I know what I'm talking about. I have a set of J110's and an all in one Mackie I hope to be using live soon and will have similar situation to sort.

Cheers!

I guess one of the things that many people do (until they learn, like I have recently) is to get the high frequency end up above people height. High Frequency seems to disappear if you don't, once that room fills up. If you use RTA to setup, a flat response curve, based on a particular room, is a flat response curve with or without people in it...

Rickisan wrote:Is there a general consensus on how to accomodate, EQ wise, the acoustic characteristics of a room with 200 people vs an empty room. I seem to remember this being a consideration.... Empty Room vs People filled room... RTA settings can change?


Cheers!

If I remember right, 125hz is dominant in an empty room; 250 hz with people in it. Or is it vice/versa.