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"the sound of horns"
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:09 pm
by osse
I was speaking with a speaker designer today(
http://WWW.valutronic.se) about about speaker designs and I told him about bfm and asked his opinion on horns.
He told me horns do have a certain sound to them.. sure they punch hard, sure they can go loud and low, but he told me they by nature were full of 2nd and 3rd harmonic content making them not suitable for accurate/hifi/critical listening situations.
Sure, I know many of bfm cabs isn't made for this purpose, but is there any substance in the statement?
He told me you cant even see this content in the sensitivity charts..
The guy has been designing speakers and amps for 50 years and has some really well made and respected designs by the way, check him out!
Re: "the sound of horns"
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:13 pm
by doncolga
I thought front loaded type boxes had more harmonics?...that's what I've read...the VH-1 on his site uses a horn.
Re: "the sound of horns"
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:16 pm
by jcmbowman
Straight horns are subject to some of the same harmonics issues as direct radiators.
The long path folded horns (emphasis on FOLDED) filter out the harmonics.
Re: "the sound of horns"
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:23 pm
by Bill Fitzmaurice
osse wrote:
he told me they by nature were full of 2nd and 3rd harmonic content making them not suitable for accurate/hifi/critical listening situations.
How do you say 'bullshit' in Swedish?
That's the exact word that Paul Klipsch would have answered this with.
the VH-1 on his site uses a horn
That's a rear-loaded horn, and they suffer from an inescapable major response dip where the front and rear waves meet 180 degrees out of phase.
Straight horns are subject to some of the same harmonics issues as direct radiators.
Less, actually, as explained by the man Paul Klipsch himself:
http://www.readresearch.co.uk/loudspeak ... icle_1.pdf
http://www.readresearch.co.uk/loudspeak ... icle_2.pdf
http://www.readresearch.co.uk/loudspeak ... icle_3.pdf
Re: "the sound of horns"
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:41 pm
by osse
Ive never heard bfm cabs(have 30% left of first of four t30s, can't wait:)) but when im thinking back of folded horn subs I've heard in the past words like "unfocused, thin" comes to my head. It's like you feel there is some kind of movement in the air but cant get a grip of it.. I hope it is due to poorly designed models but I can't really recall the same feelings when thinking about direct radiators.
I want gut wrenching thunderous crazy tight bass from hell, hope 4x t30 27" 3012lf will give it to me..
Re: "the sound of horns"
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:07 pm
by netwerks
osse wrote:Ive never heard bfm cabs(have 30% left of first of four t30s, can't wait:)) but when im thinking back of folded horn subs I've heard in the past words like "unfocused, thin" comes to my head. It's like you feel there is some kind of movement in the air but cant get a grip of it.. I hope it is due to poorly designed models but I can't really recall the same feelings when thinking about direct radiators.
I want gut wrenching thunderous crazy tight bass from hell, hope 4x t30 27" 3012lf will give it to me..
Properly placed in the right room at the right distance it will.
Re: "the sound of horns"
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:34 pm
by Radian
osse wrote:He told me horns do have a certain sound to them.. sure they punch hard, sure they can go loud and low, but he told me they by nature were full of 2nd and 3rd harmonic content making them not suitable for accurate/hifi/critical listening situations.
He's full of it. Rooms have a certain sound too. Tell him to listen to a Danley SH50.
Re: "the sound of horns"
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:49 pm
by doncolga
osse wrote:Ive never heard bfm cabs(have 30% left of first of four t30s, can't wait:)) but when im thinking back of folded horn subs I've heard in the past words like "unfocused, thin" comes to my head. It's like you feel there is some kind of movement in the air but cant get a grip of it.. I hope it is due to poorly designed models but I can't really recall the same feelings when thinking about direct radiators.
I want gut wrenching thunderous crazy tight bass from hell, hope 4x t30 27" 3012lf will give it to me..
They will man! I've got only two of those at 18" and got that in a big ball ballroom, not even corner loaded, but I was wall loaded. After a gig I played just a snippet of "Three Kinds of Bass". I shut it off quick...it was that crazy. I've never pushed my pair over 40 volts (that's where I'm set to limit) that I can recall, indoors or out. I've approached it, but just momentarily.
Re: "the sound of horns"
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:15 pm
by subharmonic
By this statement:
osse wrote:but when im thinking back of folded horn subs I've heard in the past words like "unfocused, thin" comes to my head.
I can tell this:
osse wrote:Ive never heard bfm cabs
When you are done you will pick a bare knuckle brawl with anyone saying these subs are unfocused/thin. Adjectives to describe these subs are usually: effortless, clean, tight, powerfull, and OMG
Re: "the sound of horns"
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:24 pm
by bassmonster
subharmonic wrote: Adjectives to describe these subs are usually: effortless, clean, tight, powerfull, and OMG
Osse, here's a couple of neat reactions to two T39.
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=15969
Re: "the sound of horns"
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:56 am
by matt996
Fascinating papers. If these were already linked in the education section then I must have missed 'em. Thanks Bill.