A Second First Date (DR200s with Ribbons)

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BrentEvans
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Re: A Second First Date (DR200s with Ribbons)

#16 Post by BrentEvans »

chris_c_ wrote: The piezo frequency response looks amazingly flat and extends up to 20k easily - but the phase response is terrible. The ribbon is flat only 3k-10k , but with close to perfect phase response.
Don't compare the SPL charts too closely, they were taken at different times with different calibrations, and they're not even on the same scale. The idea there was to compare the relative sensitivity of the HF sections, and also the phase response.

The subjective difference is that the ribbons just sound better, and becasue the phase response is smoother, they are far more feedback resistant, which means less EQ is needed. The piezo response looks flat, but in reality it required a lot of EQ to get right, and lots of feedback notching. Further, I had one cab with three bad piezo drivers, and the response on that one was all out of whack.... the constructive and destructive interference between units in the array is what is creating the flat measured response... but the price is consistency. One bad unit can create problems. These types of problems are minimized with ribbons... they're series wired so if one unit in a cab fails, the whole cab's HF section will go, and replacement is very easy, compared to removing an array and replacing a piezo diaphragm.

Peak SPL for 2 ribbons is about 117 dB. Any idea what the peak SPL for the melded piezo array is ??
No, but I've never had any problems with the ribbons keeping up with the woofer section. HF just isn't as demanding. I'm also thoroughly convinced that they can take more power than they're rated for, and they are far more forgiving of distortion than the melded array.
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chris_c_
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Re: A Second First Date (DR200s with Ribbons)

#17 Post by chris_c_ »

BrentEvans wrote: ... I've never had any problems with the ribbons keeping up with the woofer section. HF just isn't as demanding. I'm also thoroughly convinced that they can take more power than they're rated for, and they are far more forgiving of distortion than the melded array.
Interesting. Say you had 20 ribbon tweeter loaded DR200's cabs + subs, and you get booked to do a band like Bon Jovi for 1000 people in a theater - lots of treble, screaming distortion guitars, pushing the max SPLs. Do you feel your ribbon loaded DR200s configured in a line array 10 per side could deliver a reliable FOH - no blown ribbons - even coverage - adequate SPL - etc ?
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BrentEvans
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Re: A Second First Date (DR200s with Ribbons)

#18 Post by BrentEvans »

I have a colleague that regularly does such gigs with ribbon loaded cabs, no issues. It was on his advice that I explored refitting the DRs.

20 DR200s... :hyper:
99% of the time, things that aren't already being done aren't being done because they don't work. The other 1% is split evenly between fools and geniuses.

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Re: A Second First Date (DR200s with Ribbons)

#19 Post by chris_c_ »

I have a colleague that regularly does such gigs with ribbon loaded cabs, no issues.
Great to hear. Does he hang the line arrays ? Got pics/specs of the hanging apparatus ?
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Re: A Second First Date (DR200s with Ribbons)

#20 Post by el_ingeniero »

chris_c_ wrote:
I have a colleague that regularly does such gigs with ribbon loaded cabs, no issues.
Great to hear. Does he hang the line arrays ? Got pics/specs of the hanging apparatus ?
Might not be a DR200 he's hanging. And you'd need to get the rig certified by a professional engineer.

With a gig that needs 20 DR200s, you'd be vastly better off with DR280s or DR300s. It's the height of the array that makes the sound smoother. Unless you've got a professional engineer in your pocket and wads of dough, you're better off stacking them on a duct jack than hanging them.

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Tom Smit
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Re: A Second First Date (DR200s with Ribbons)

#21 Post by Tom Smit »

el_ingeniero wrote:
With a gig that needs 20 DR200s, you'd be vastly better off with DR280s or DR300s. It's the height of the array that makes the sound smoother. Unless you've got a professional engineer in your pocket and wads of dough, you're better off stacking them on a duct jack than hanging them.
I didn't know what that was so I googled it. Rental price isn't too bad for a week, I would think, if one was using a pair for a money-making event.
TomS

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BrentEvans
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Re: A Second First Date (DR200s with Ribbons)

#22 Post by BrentEvans »

chris_c_ wrote:
I have a colleague that regularly does such gigs with ribbon loaded cabs, no issues.
Great to hear. Does he hang the line arrays ? Got pics/specs of the hanging apparatus ?
Those cabs are more like SLA Pro than anything else. He ground stacks.
99% of the time, things that aren't already being done aren't being done because they don't work. The other 1% is split evenly between fools and geniuses.

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Re: A Second First Date (DR200s with Ribbons)

#23 Post by el_ingeniero »

Tom Smit wrote:
el_ingeniero wrote:
With a gig that needs 20 DR200s, you'd be vastly better off with DR280s or DR300s. It's the height of the array that makes the sound smoother. Unless you've got a professional engineer in your pocket and wads of dough, you're better off stacking them on a duct jack than hanging them.
I didn't know what that was so I googled it. Rental price isn't too bad for a week, I would think, if one was using a pair for a money-making event.
Rental companies turn over their stock regularly, so you should be able to pick them up used on the cheap.

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Re: A Second First Date (DR200s with Ribbons)

#24 Post by chris_c_ »

el_ingeniero wrote:Rental companies turn over their stock regularly, so you should be able to pick them up used on the cheap.
Any idea how to stack them safely on a duct jack and still get proper coverage? Figuring from the ground up to 5 feet off the floor is where subs are. That's the point where a vertical line array starts stacking up. But how to keep it safe from toppling sideways, and proper coverage with the bottom 1-2 boxes angling slightly downward to reach the people in the front rows. Just seems very awkward keeping 4 or 6 boxes safe from toppling but aimed for correct coverage.
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Re: A Second First Date (DR200s with Ribbons)

#25 Post by el_ingeniero »

Use a platform per the DR stacking sticky. I would enhance the stability by having 2x4s or aluminum poles holding everything together.

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subharmonic
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Re: A Second First Date (DR200s with Ribbons)

#26 Post by subharmonic »

Alright Brent......since you have unlimited time and funds.....give this new one a try:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdet ... er=275-090
2x T39, 1x T60, 1x THTLP, 1x AT(not built by me) 6x DR250
I need more bass

But this gal's built like a burlap bag full of bobcats
CW Mcall

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BrentEvans
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Re: A Second First Date (DR200s with Ribbons)

#27 Post by BrentEvans »

Interesting, but too rich for my blood.
99% of the time, things that aren't already being done aren't being done because they don't work. The other 1% is split evenly between fools and geniuses.

Rockboy
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Re: A Second First Date (DR200s with Ribbons)

#28 Post by Rockboy »

Would the Dayton Audio PT2C-8 or the Beston RT002A Ribbon Tweeter
work for a OT12 ??

Thanks - Robb

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DJPhatman
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Re: A Second First Date (DR200s with Ribbons)

#29 Post by DJPhatman »

Rockboy wrote:Would the Dayton Audio PT2C-8 or the Beston RT002A Ribbon Tweeter
work for a OT12 ??

Thanks - Robb
Post a link to T/S specs and frequency response charts.
I know money often seals the deal, but seriously, quality is an investment, not an expense... Grant Bunter
Accept the fact that airtight and well-braced are more important than pretty on the inside. Bill Fitzmaurice

Rockboy
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Re: A Second First Date (DR200s with Ribbons)

#30 Post by Rockboy »

Dayton Audio PT2C-8 Planar Tweeter

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdet ... er=275-085



Beston RT002A Ribbon Tweeter

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdet ... er=277-112

Thanks -- Robb !!!!!!!!

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