A Second First Date (DR200s with Ribbons)

[BrentEvans]

They say you never get a second chance at a first date. Well... maybe not, but this is close. We just got back in from the first time out with my DR200s after the ribbon tweeter refit. The gig was a last minute freebie (returning a favor), but I like to make impressions, so we took the whole kit.

It was a youth event at the local community college, and consisted of praise bands and preachers from a couple of churches. With 4 DR200s and my ported 15s, we hit 110db frequently in the back of the room, and I easily had 20db of headroom in the system before the limiters.

Some video was shot, I'll try to get a few clips. Sound was perfect, even with an on-the-fly EQ job (couldn't find my saved EQ curve for the new configuration).

Here's the kicker- the only place to set up the tops was behind the performance area. The room was oddly shaped, and they had set up a "theatre in the round" configuration. Even so, I had all kinds of volume with no feedback - the ribbons are great for this. 110db with open large diaphragm condensers on stage, lots of vocal mics, and the speakers no farther than 15 feet away, and behind the mics.... totally awesome. 105db with a lav mic and no hint of feedback... super cool.

If you're considering DR200s, and don't mind biamping.... it's way worth it.

[Ken Lustgarten]

So I take it you like the ribbons better then piezos? Just tonight I made some bulk cutting jigs (cuts 5 at a time) and started cutting piezos for 6 DR200's (4 melded and 2 flat). If I didn't already have all the parts the ribbons would be a fun project to try, I would love to hear them.

[BrentEvans]

So I take it you like the ribbons better then piezos? Just tonight I made some bulk cutting jigs (cuts 5 at a time) and started cutting piezos for 6 DR200's (4 melded and 2 flat). If I didn't already have all the parts the ribbons would be a fun project to try, I would love to hear them.

Sorry to be so long, thought I had responded to this already.

Indeed, I do like them better. If you're down here sometime, send me a line and we'll arrange a demo.

Also... event video. Camera audio only, the client was very happy with the sound, and invited me back for a couple of more of these later this year. The only feedback came from the monitors, even though FOH was behind the performance area.

[James R]

Thanks Brent,
I have 2 of my Otop 112's loaded with ribbons only 6 more to go Oh Also ( I got that motu squared away also) .

Jim

[BrentEvans]

Thanks Brent,
I have 2 of my Otop 112's loaded with ribbons only 6 more to go Oh Also ( I got that motu squared away also) .

Jim

Cool deal... what ended up being the problem?

[horst]

Also... event video. Camera audio only,

That sounds petty good, but you should get some binaural microphones, they are microphones that are mounted in or near the ears, the resulting effect is almost spooky in it's realism.

PS: it does look a little non busy in there, maybe you could suggest they mix up the slow dance material with
some Drum n' Praise? I'd come.

[Tom Smit]

Here's the kicker- the only place to set up the tops was behind the performance area. The room was oddly shaped, and they had set up a "theatre in the round" configuration. Even so, I had all kinds of volume with no feedback - the ribbons are great for this.

I have done this a couple of times with my O10.5s, and also with no feedback.

Good sound by the way.

[James R]

Thanks Brent,
I have 2 of my Otop 112's loaded with ribbons only 6 more to go Oh Also ( I got that motu squared away also) .

Jim

Cool deal... what ended up being the problem?

Changed out to my backup tower and it worked no problem

[BrentEvans]

Changed out to my backup tower and it worked no problem

First computer probably didn't have 5v PCI slots. It happens.

[James R]

Prob, having more memory and a seperate vid card put in to speed it up.
Anyway glad to see the Ribbons are working out

[Jujuman]

Hey BE;
Which ribbons did you use? That vid sounds great.....

Jujuman

[BrentEvans]

Hey BE;
Which ribbons did you use? That vid sounds great.....

Jujuman

Dayton PT2C-8, 2 per cab in series. Spacing was done so that when stacked, the individual ribbons are equidistant. This means they're cheated slightly to the outside from perfect center on the cab.

[chris_c_]

Ribbons have a very flat response and extend up to 20kHz. But what's the efficiency of the 2 ribbons vs. the melded peizo tweeter array , for the DR200, 1w @ 1m ?

[BrentEvans]

Here's the chart... they're not as sensitive as the piezos, but because you're biamping, you can compensate by simply turning up the amp a bit. This can change the phase relationship at the crossover point, so you have to be careful not to lose response there, but my experience has been that it's not a problem. These have such a nice linear phase relationship it's amazing. Also attached is a chart of the same cabinet before the refit while it still had a melded array (SPL is not calibrated on this chart) - notice how the phase relationship of the piezo array is much more ragged. This may or may not be of any consequence, but the ribbons are much better at rejecting feedback, and they sound better with a single cab in play than the piezos do, even with both systems calibrated and EQd.

[chris_c_]

Here's the chart... they're not as sensitive as the piezos, but because you're biamping, you can compensate by simply turning up the amp a bit. This can change the phase relationship at the crossover point, so you have to be careful not to lose response there, but my experience has been that it's not a problem. These have such a nice linear phase relationship it's amazing. Also attached is a chart of the same cabinet before the refit while it still had a melded array (SPL is not calibrated on this chart) - notice how the phase relationship of the piezo array is much more ragged. This may or may not be of any consequence, but the ribbons are much better at rejecting feedback, and they sound better with a single cab in play than the piezos do, even with both systems calibrated and EQd.

Thanks Brent.

The piezo frequency response looks amazingly flat and extends up to 20k easily - but the phase response is terrible. The ribbon is flat only 3k-10k , but with close to perfect phase response.

Peak SPL for 2 ribbons is about 117 dB. Any idea what the peak SPL for the melded piezo array is ??