BillFitzmaurice.info

Wouldn't the same rules apply for subwoofer placement in a recording/mixing suite as for live work?...most notably staying out of the 3-8' distance of a boundary to reduce cancellations? I'm not sure about this since a mixing room would want to minimize the effects of the room. I do remember once I had a JBL monitoring sub (LSR4312SP) placed in this range from a wall and if you stood in the middle of the room the bass just disappeared as if the sub was turned off...that just happened to be where the mix position was supposed to be...clearly didn't work well.

doncolga wrote:Wouldn't the same rules apply for subwoofer placement in a recording/mixing suite as for live work?...most notably staying out of the 3-8' distance of a boundary to reduce cancellations? I'm not sure about this since a mixing room would want to minimize the effects of the room. I do remember once I had a JBL monitoring sub (LSR4312SP) placed in this range from a wall and if you stood in the middle of the room the bass just disappeared as if the sub was turned off...that just happened to be where the mix position was supposed to be...clearly didn't work well.

I think you answered your own question.

In my experience, you don't want to position the sub so that it overly exagerates the low end but if your getting cancellation at the mix position otherwise, then you have no choice. I've worked around this by using an auto-eq or real time analyzer with a measurement mic to flatten the sound right at the mix position. You may not have golden ears but you have no choice. Try a few different sub placements and record a mix, listen, make adjustments, and repeat till your mix sounds just right on your regular home stereo. The only other technique I've seen used it to raise the sub on a speaker stand as close to ear level as possible, not hidden or obstructed, and as close to the main left right monitors as possible.

DanielNY wrote:In my experience, you don't want to position the sub so that it overly exagerates the low end but if your getting cancellation at the mix position otherwise, then you have no choice. I've worked around this by using an auto-eq or real time analyzer with a measurement mic to flatten the sound right at the mix position. You may not have golden ears but you have no choice. Try a few different sub placements and record a mix, listen, make adjustments, and repeat till your mix sounds just right on your regular home stereo. The only other technique I've seen used it to raise the sub on a speaker stand as close to ear level as possible, not hidden or obstructed, and as close to the main left right monitors as possible.

RTAs are generally not accurate in sub frequencies...

You cannot eq a room, you have to treat a room or alter speaker placement.

Do not tune a system with your own mixes - use reference material that is known to be well produced.

Jamie

I'm in a new room now and the sub is probably around 2+ feet or so from the wall, and my mix position sounds good with a range of reference mixes. Between the two walls however I am in the no-go zone, so that may be having an effect. Just to experiment I'm going to try a corner in the safe distance to see how it compares. I've got lots of RealTraps bass traps positioned in corners throughout the room. I use Sonar to play back sine waves that increment by a single step per second from about 40 to about 200 hz I believe, then use an omnidirectional mic to record the wave in the room at the mix position, then compare the two waves. Ideally, the recorded wave should be flat as possible throughout. This will be VERY interesting to see because previous to the subwoofer placement information that I got here, the results would be all over the place with +20dB variation in this range.

So your not using an RTA (flat) mic???

Jamie

guitarkeys.com wrote:

DanielNY wrote:In my experience, you don't want to position the sub so that it overly exagerates the low end but if your getting cancellation at the mix position otherwise, then you have no choice. I've worked around this by using an auto-eq or real time analyzer with a measurement mic to flatten the sound right at the mix position. You may not have golden ears but you have no choice. Try a few different sub placements and record a mix, listen, make adjustments, and repeat till your mix sounds just right on your regular home stereo. The only other technique I've seen used it to raise the sub on a speaker stand as close to ear level as possible, not hidden or obstructed, and as close to the main left right monitors as possible.

RTAs are generally not accurate in sub frequencies...

Unless he is mixing surround sound that requires LFE signals below 40hz the RTA's I've used are plenty accurate (Hardware and Software).

You cannot eq a room, you have to treat a room or alter speaker placement.

Unless your building your room around your monitoring system, don't go to great lengths or cost to treat your room. Bass traps, Diffusers, and acoustic panels in most rooms work the ego more than they do your room acoustics. Unless your ready to make your room symetrical vs parallel, don't kill yourself over room treatment. Good monitor placement is the remedy for most room anomalies.

Do not tune a system with your own mixes - use reference material that is known to be well produced.

I'd have to disagree with this one as well. While it is important to establish a good reference for your genre of music, no matter what, the sound is still colored by the monitors you choose to use. Mixed well or not, you will always chase that reference sound, then what happens when you switch to your mid or far field monitors??? The sound of the mix changes once again . All you can do is learn your monitors and your room. Reference your own material, only you know what you want to sound like.


I've mixed and co produced two gold singles, mixed and tracked at the Hit Factory and Quad recording in NYC, and having my own project studio means absolutley nothing. I have learned that there is no substitute for practicing your mixing skills and understanding room acoustics. I've heard mixes come out of these world renowned studios that sound like SHIT. I've also taken a mix done on a Mackie 1604 and Gemini speakers brought in and played at other recording studios and had the engineers fooled about where it was recorded.

doncolga wrote:I'm in a new room now and the sub is probably around 2+ feet or so from the wall, and my mix position sounds good with a range of reference mixes. Between the two walls however I am in the no-go zone, so that may be having an effect. Just to experiment I'm going to try a corner in the safe distance to see how it compares. I've got lots of RealTraps bass traps positioned in corners throughout the room. I use Sonar to play back sine waves that increment by a single step per second from about 40 to about 200 hz I believe, then use an omnidirectional mic to record the wave in the room at the mix position, then compare the two waves. Ideally, the recorded wave should be flat as possible throughout. This will be VERY interesting to see because previous to the subwoofer placement information that I got here, the results would be all over the place with +20dB variation in this range.

I would try to move the monitors away from the walls, sides and back, if they are not already. Then placing the sub at the foot of either the left or right monitor, directly underneath if possible. Turn your monitors up to a comfortable mix level, then either run pink noise or some other reference mix to flatten the response of your monitors. Then have someone else slowly turn up the sub until your comfortable with the level at the listening position, and run the RTa again, this will give you a rough idea if your lacking or over compensating the sub.

Just my .2 cents

guitarkeys.com wrote:So your not using an RTA (flat) mic???

Jamie

Yes, it's a flat omni...Behringer EMC8000 http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/ECM8000.aspx

There is a big difference between mixing gold records at a facility and designing the listening space at a facility. Two completely different skill sets.

Lots of articles by the below experts if someone is willing to do a little reading.

Bob McCarthy
Ethan Wiener
Bob Katz

Jamie

guitarkeys.com wrote:There is a big difference between mixing gold records at a facility and designing the listening space at a facility. Two completely different skill sets.

Lots of articles by the below experts if someone is willing to do a little reading.

Bob McCarthy
Ethan Wiener
Bob Katz

Jamie

While I'm no acoustical engineer, my bachelors in music business and audio engineering had a requisite on studio design concepts and architecture based on designs by John Storyk. So I've accomplished a just a bit more than reference articles and dabble in books. Heck if I can remember everything I gathered in those courses but I'm not just speaking from the hip. Theory doesnt always reflect real world practices.

Don't get me wrong, acoustical treatment can be used effectively, but it has its limitations and in most cases it isn't applied properly. Throwing up a bunch of traps and diffusers doesnt mean your room is any better for listening than it was prior to.

Is that like advanced music appreciation….

Jamie

guitarkeys.com wrote:Is that like advanced music appreciation….

Jamie

lol,

and the professor's name was Joe Kul, go figure!

soundproofing sound proofing sound proofing
many of the times I try to get from my monitors (i have a sub that i use sometimes) the same sound i got from my premium headphones even that i always mix with headphones