BillFitzmaurice.info

Ran across this driver and still not understanding T/S parameters needed was wondering if this would be equal to or superior to the discontinued HL10C ? http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdet ... er=293-604

No.

Fs is too low to be in the same ball park as the HL-10C.

*Edit* ...on top of that, it's 3 dB less sensitive

The harder I try to lock onto a substitute for the HL-10C, the more I figure out just how fantastic of a driver it actually was. It's only detracting characteristics, in my opinion, were its weight and that it was a 4 ohm driver (for stringing together multiple subs).

If I had my druthers, it would be for 16-ohm drivers, not 4-ohm.

Here's why:
A series pair is a 2:1 voltage divider.
This means if your single driver is capable of 60v to max power (3012LF, 3015LF), you must have 120v applied to the string.
The only way to get 120v is to bridge your amp.

Conversely, four 16-ohm drivers (i.e. Delta Pro 8B) can run safely in parallel at a 4 ohm load.
Each gets the normal full voltage from the amp without resorting to bridging.
This is the reason why the 8B is so popular in a DR200 stack.

bgavin wrote:If I had my druthers, it would be for 16-ohm drivers, not 4-ohm.

But that would be just like having 4ohm if running multiples. Even if you ran two, 4+4 would be a total of 8ohm, which would still be the same as two parallel 16ohm cabs. And if you did four, the 16ohm and the 4 ohm stack would all be 4ohm in the end with the correct configuration. Unless you're saying that the advantage is that you don't need to series anything, which is a PITA.

Maybe you meant to say 8ohm vs 16ohm, no?

If not, i'm getting confused since 16ohm drivers and 4ohm driver (in multiples) would come out to the same impedance once wired up in their respective configurations.

SeisTres wrote:

bgavin wrote:If I had my druthers, it would be for 16-ohm drivers, not 4-ohm.

But that would be just like having 4ohm if running multiples. Even if you ran two, 4+4 would be a total of 8ohm, which would still be the same as two parallel 16ohm cabs. And if you did four, the 16ohm and the 4 ohm stack would all be 4ohm in the end with the correct configuration. Unless you're saying that the advantage is that you don't need to series anything, which is a PITA.

Maybe you meant to say 8ohm vs 16ohm, no?

If not, i'm getting confused since 16ohm drivers and 4ohm driver (in multiples) would come out to the same impedance once wired up in their respective configurations.

What he is saying if you series parallel then you double the amount of voltage needed to apply maximum power to the string and most amps will not provide this much voltage without bridging

gilscales wrote: What he is saying if you series parallel then you double the amount of voltage needed to apply maximum power to the string and most amps will not provide this much voltage without bridging

That I get, but if you have four 16ohm drivers that take 450watts rms in a stack of four at 4 ohms, and then you have another stack of four 4ohm drivers that will also take 450watts with a total impedance of 4ohm for that stack, you would still need the same voltage regardless if you start with 16 or 4 ohm drivers. Now, 8ohm drivers is where 4 cabs get tricky.

SeisTres wrote: Now, 8ohm drivers is where 4 cabs get tricky.

By the time one has 4 cabs per side one should think about getting another amp to be able to powershade the array anyways so I don't think it's a problem.

Radian wrote:The harder I try to lock onto a substitute for the HL-10C, the more I figure out just how fantastic of a driver it actually was. It's only detracting characteristics, in my opinion, were its weight and that it was a 4 ohm driver (for stringing together multiple subs).

If I remember correctly, Eminence built the HL-10C specifically to Bill's specifications for the horn loaded Tuba24, and 4 ohms was chosen because the resulting impedance becomes 8 ohms.

But I understand and agree with your point about 4 ohm drivers for other applications.

Bruce is correct ... 16 ohm drivers would be much better for having four drivers per amp side. In parallel, you'd have a 4 ohm total load, with each driver getting full voltage supplied by the amp. With 4 ohm drivers, series/parallel, you'd still get a 4 ohm total load, but each driver would be getting HALF of the voltage supplied by the amp, due to the series circuit. That's fine with relatively low-power drivers and a large amp, but with higher power drivers, you'd need a massive amp to deliver ample voltage when it's split.

Mikey wrote:Bruce is correct ... 16 ohm drivers would be much better for having four drivers per amp side.

Although you're not going to split the voltage, you would still need a massive amp to drive high powered 16ohm drivers, so gain, we're back to square one. Remember that if the if you need 60 volts with the kappalite series when they are 8 ohms, you would need 120 volts if they were 16ohm versions. So series or no series wiring, you would still need a huge amp to be able to put out that much.

WB wrote: If I remember correctly, Eminence built the HL-10C specifically to Bill's specifications for the horn loaded Tuba24, and 4 ohms was chosen because the resulting impedance becomes 8 ohms.

True. That was a few years back, when few of our members used more than four subs, and most wanted the maximum output possible from just one or two.