BillFitzmaurice.info

Am I the only one who thinks redlined Pioneers(probably depending on model) does NOT sound that awful? In some cases, especially regarding my friends DJM-300 mixer which we've been using a lot when we have been playing, I think the sound gets better when it's heavily into red. I guess it depens on the rest of the gain structure, and as most people set it up so that red on mixer = red on speakers/amps, it would offcourse sound awful.

My 800 and other 800's i've been playing on I havn't heard neither a negative or positive effect on OTOH.

Maybe I'm retarded or deaf - but it's the truth for me...

sorry mate, but red does sound AWFUL on a pioneer 700/800/900/2000. I can peg it from the door of the club. crunch mode engage.

sine143 wrote:sorry mate, but red does sound AWFUL on a pioneer 700/800/900/2000. I can peg it from the door of the club. crunch mode engage.

They SHOULDN'T sound bad though, as the mixer supposedly has enough headroom to cope when the signal is up that high (a figure of +22dBu springs to mind, which would be +18dB on the level meter assuming 0dB=+4dBu). Yeah, you have to allow for crest factor, but that's still a pretty HOT signal that SHOULD be getting through that mixer UNDISTORTED.

I think...

DISCUSS...

Pioneer mixers are known for their shitty handling of hot signals, they just distort wildly. Allen & Heath's range although absolutely diabolically laid out and massive un-intuitive to use have a far better bunch of electronics on the output end. On most club systems it's hard to tell what the fuck is decent quality anyway considering how poorly thrown together some are. On a well adjusted BFM setup though? It should be night and day.

The problem is DJs using the mixer itself as a limiter "if it's smashing the reds I can't get any louder so I don't have to watch my gain levels!" and the mixer's handling of said levels which is always always bad when it comes to Pioneer. I say this as someone who owns Pioneer too...

The only way for Pioneer to combat this is to just remove the fucking red lights and disable gain entirely over a certain amount. Which they'll never do. Even when you adjust the output on the mixer itself down to 0db from the 12db it comes pre-set to it's still easy to end up in the red. People just don't understand about ear fatigue, your ears will lie to you after spending time in a really loud environment, trust the fucking electronics!

A nice article: http://www.djtechtools.com/2010/05/16/d ... he-levels/

88h88 wrote:Pioneer mixers are known for their shitty handling of hot signals, they just distort wildly. Allen & Heath's range although absolutely diabolically laid out and massive un-intuitive to use have a far better bunch of electronics on the output end. On most club systems it's hard to tell what the fuck is decent quality anyway considering how poorly thrown together some are. On a well adjusted BFM setup though? It should be night and day.

The problem is DJs using the mixer itself as a limiter "if it's smashing the reds I can't get any louder so I don't have to watch my gain levels!" and the mixer's handling of said levels which is always always bad when it comes to Pioneer. I say this as someone who owns Pioneer too...

The only way for Pioneer to combat this is to just remove the fucking red lights and disable gain entirely over a certain amount. Which they'll never do. Even when you adjust the output on the mixer itself down to 0db from the 12db it comes pre-set to it's still easy to end up in the red. People just don't understand about ear fatigue, your ears will lie to you after spending time in a really loud environment, trust the fucking electronics!

As a bonus, if both the channels and the master are in the red, its easier to cue in the headphones. If you are running the channel at say "1 orange" but the master is only at neg 8 or whatever, it can be hard to balance the headphone cue with the master (in the headphones).

another big issue is EVEN IF the pioneer wasnt distorting on the outputs when pegged to double red, MOST lower end boards (and even some really nice ones) cannot deal with a signal that hot (even with the gain knob alllll the way to the left), without a pad (if you have a pad you're fine though), and I've seen plenty of boards clipping inputs with the gain at minimum.

Good thing I have the Master himself coming to town to dial this beast in!!

88h88 wrote:

osse wrote:So, have the opening night taken place yet? I don't think I speak only for myself when I say that the interest in it is of high interest... how did it go?

Here's the site for the joint: http://www.clubtherapyri.com/
Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/therapyri

Opening in 11 days.

hifibob, how are you going to manage unruly DJs who run Pioneer mixers into distortion?

I do have remote access to the Driverack but nothing is going to stop the headliners from turning that master all the way up Oddly I cant hear any noticeable difference in sound when the master is pegged This system is on cruise control so nothing gets pushed to hard so it probably disguises the pre-amp distortion a bit??

hifibob wrote:Good thing I have the Master himself coming to town to dial this beast in!!

That's just teasing.

Bob, PLEASE give this one a tryif you get the chance (vid would be sick hehe). Give her some gas too. this ones torture material, straight 34 hz the whole time.

I visited the club today to help Bob dial in the system and check out the room acoustics. If I was playing this room with my band we'd use a pair of DR200s or DR250s and a pair of T48s. His eight DR280s and twelve T60s would easily handle a room at least four times the size of his.
The in-room response is phenomenal. I walked it from side to side, front to back, with my handheld RTA, and it's uniform everywhere. The output is crazy. A couple of times we had it up to 120dB halfway back in the room, with not the slightest hint of any distortion. No one could complain about the quality of this sound, and that was with the room empty. I noted a couple of acoustic improvements that need doing, and with those complete and the dance floor full of bodies this place is going to set a whole new standard for high intensity club sound.

where the vidsss.

Wow. Straight from the man himself. Heavy-duty praise like that doesn't come easily. Fantastic job, Bob!!! I've always said "There's no kill like overkill!"

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote:I visited the club today to help Bob dial in the system and check out the room acoustics. If I was playing this room with my band we'd use a pair of DR200s or DR250s and a pair of T48s. His eight DR280s and twelve T60s would easily handle a room at least four times the size of his.
The in-room response is phenomenal. I walked it from side to side, front to back, with my handheld RTA, and it's uniform everywhere. The output is crazy. A couple of times we had it up to 120dB halfway back in the room, with not the slightest hint of any distortion. No one could complain about the quality of this sound, and that was with the room empty. I noted a couple of acoustic improvements that need doing, and with those complete and the dance floor full of bodies this place is going to set a whole new standard for high intensity club sound.

Pretty high praise, from our curmudgeonly sensei. I'm quite looking forward to checking out the club. Any chance of a soft opening, for BFM aficionados?


Any chance of there being any beer there of a higher calibre than MGD or Bud light?? (Not asking for much: Sam Adams would be great.) Those who "know the difference" with sound tend to "know the difference" in other areas!

Rich4349 wrote: Any chance of a soft opening, for BFM aficionados?

The club opens at 12 midnight tomorrow, Friday the 17th/Saturday the 18th. It is only open from 12 AM to 6 AM Friday night/Saturday morning and Saturday night/Sunday morning.

Does the liquor license extend to 06:00?