Re: myn's Tuba HT Build Thread
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:34 am
Considering it took me only one week to build the original THT, including designing it, perhaps a tad over obsessive.myn wrote:
You guys are probably thinking I'm nuts..
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myn's Tuba HT Build Thread
Page 26 of 31
Re: myn's Tuba HT Build Thread
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:33 am
This morning I checked on the Aleen's Tacky Glue and Weldbond. Both had cured nicely.
The Weldbond has better adhesion in contrast to Aleens Tacky Glue. I realize now why NASA chooses this glue for their space missions. Unfortunately it dried very brittle similar to regular white carpenters glue. Still great glue that I will use on another project.
The Aleens Tacky glue still had decent adhesion and dried to be fairly flexible. But not as flexible as say a latex or silicone caulk.
I'm going to head out to HD and get some latex caulk and just use that. I can almost guarantee it will adhere to just about anything and it's super flexible. The only downside is it's viscosity isn't as thin as the glues so it won't seep into the crack as nicely.
The Weldbond has better adhesion in contrast to Aleens Tacky Glue. I realize now why NASA chooses this glue for their space missions. Unfortunately it dried very brittle similar to regular white carpenters glue. Still great glue that I will use on another project.
The Aleens Tacky glue still had decent adhesion and dried to be fairly flexible. But not as flexible as say a latex or silicone caulk.
I'm going to head out to HD and get some latex caulk and just use that. I can almost guarantee it will adhere to just about anything and it's super flexible. The only downside is it's viscosity isn't as thin as the glues so it won't seep into the crack as nicely.
Re: myn's Tuba HT Build Thread
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:19 pm
"The only downside is it's viscosity isn't as thin as the glues so it won't seep into the crack as nicely."
That's what the syringe is for...see if you can source one at a vet supply or feed store...not sure if large pet stores will carry them....but if you know a vet real well and they are open today, they may just let you have one..
But you may be able to get by just as well without one...looks like you may have this thing firing up tomorrow...
JSS
That's what the syringe is for...see if you can source one at a vet supply or feed store...not sure if large pet stores will carry them....but if you know a vet real well and they are open today, they may just let you have one..
But you may be able to get by just as well without one...looks like you may have this thing firing up tomorrow...
JSS
Re: myn's Tuba HT Build Thread
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:32 pm
Try a pharmacy, ask for a 2tsp oral syringe. In my area, CVS and Walgreens both keep them for giving kids medicines.
Re: myn's Tuba HT Build Thread
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:54 pm
[== 10/17/2009 ==]
What I ended up buying at Home Depot this morning was DAP 10.1 Oz. Clear Dynaflex 230 Premium Elastomeric Latex Sealant. It had the least chemical warnings of the latex sealants and I can contest there is barely any odor once applied. What I don't get is the cure time. On the side of the tube it says "applies white, dries clear in 7-14 days. Sealant should not be painted until it has turned clear". Here is the tech doc on the stuff: http://www.dap.com/docs/tech/00010020001.pdf . I hope I don't have to wait 7 - 14 days for this stuff to cure..
As for the application. On a previous project, my DIY Black Flame Light Fusion projection screen I had to mix up a paint concoction that required very fine precise measurements. I used 60ml syringes that are commonly used to administer antibiotics to horses. Found at my local tractor supply store none the less. Unfortunately they don't have a really fine end for this latex caulk application
What I did end up using was exactly what MaxMercy showed in his previous pictures which I received from the Dentist years ago but had never used. (see pics below).
That applicator really is necessary. It allowed for the precision I required to get into the crack/crevice and disperse just the right amount of caulk. Thanks for that great tip MaxMercy.
Now I wait.. Hopefully not 7 - 14 days though
.
What I ended up buying at Home Depot this morning was DAP 10.1 Oz. Clear Dynaflex 230 Premium Elastomeric Latex Sealant. It had the least chemical warnings of the latex sealants and I can contest there is barely any odor once applied. What I don't get is the cure time. On the side of the tube it says "applies white, dries clear in 7-14 days. Sealant should not be painted until it has turned clear". Here is the tech doc on the stuff: http://www.dap.com/docs/tech/00010020001.pdf . I hope I don't have to wait 7 - 14 days for this stuff to cure..
As for the application. On a previous project, my DIY Black Flame Light Fusion projection screen I had to mix up a paint concoction that required very fine precise measurements. I used 60ml syringes that are commonly used to administer antibiotics to horses. Found at my local tractor supply store none the less. Unfortunately they don't have a really fine end for this latex caulk application
What I did end up using was exactly what MaxMercy showed in his previous pictures which I received from the Dentist years ago but had never used. (see pics below).
That applicator really is necessary. It allowed for the precision I required to get into the crack/crevice and disperse just the right amount of caulk. Thanks for that great tip MaxMercy.
Now I wait.. Hopefully not 7 - 14 days though
.Re: myn's Tuba HT Build Thread
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:11 pm
Update: Even after a few hours it looks like the caulk is turning to a clear color which means its drying 
. It does have some shrinkage though but thats kinda a good thing as the caulk now looks flush to the inner gasket.
. It does have some shrinkage though but thats kinda a good thing as the caulk now looks flush to the inner gasket.Re: myn's Tuba HT Build Thread
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:53 pm
My guess is you have had impacted wisdom teeth removed....hence the curved syringe...
Good to hear the caulk is curing.....interesting thread on the screen...
JSS
Good to hear the caulk is curing.....interesting thread on the screen...
JSS
Re: myn's Tuba HT Build Thread
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:13 pm
[== 10/18/2009 ==]
For the past 4 months, 18 days I have been waiting for today.. The day I can say "I am finished".
This afternoon I reinstalled the driver as the latex caulk had fully cured and again tested it for leaks along the 4 vertical lines and around the circumference. This time no leaks what so ever. That Latex caulk worked perfect.
I proceeded to install the access panel and than did another leak test. I did have to tighten it up a little bit more in a few spots that were experiencing small leaks but all is good now. That silicone tubing works like a charm to test for air leaks and encourage everyone to use this technique.
This afternoon I basically gave the the THT a run. No measurement equipment just my old ears.. I decided to play stuff that my ears were accustom to hearing with my EBS/LLT. For music I used Elton John and The Pussy Cat dolls, both live concerts. For movies, Transformers 1 & 2, Die Hard 4, Star Wars EP 1 PodRace scene DTS, and Bolt.
The first thing I noticed about the THT was it's efficiency. Everyone has told me it gets loud but me being a bass fanatic assumed it would be relatively loud but not CRAZY loud. Well.. You guys were right. This thing is crazy loud. It took me awhile to get acquainted with just how loud it gets. I am so used to the limits of my EBS/LLT there were sometimes I was running for the remote thinking the DVC in the THT was about to bottom out. But it never did. Only after did I started measuring the voltage did I get more confidence in cranking it up more.
Even without an SPL meter in hand I can easily say the THT dominates the EBS/LLT all day long. One of the main reasons I wanted to build the THT was because of its claim for great midbass (40 - 100hz). This was a goal for this project, to get back the midbass my EBS/LLT lacked. It was such a pleasure to feel a very tactile kick in the chest while playing both live concerts from Elton John and the Pussy Cat Dolls. It hit like I've never heard a home theater sub hit before. As for the ultra low bass below 40hz, I feel (no pun intended) the THT again dominates my EBS/LLT in this area too. As mentioned I am still getting used to crazy output of the THT and to prohibit any bottoming of the driver I configured a 48db/Butterworth @ 24hz highpass using my DCX2496. Steep slope, yes but the THT has so much output even crossed over this aggressively I still felt the lower octaves had ALOT more tactile effects. <Spoiler alert> Lets just say in Transformers 2 when Optimus dies and falls to the ground my vision blurred like I have never felt before (1:02 into movie). If I had to gauge, again with my ears I'd say the THT is at least 5x louder than the EBS/LLT.
As most who already have horns know, the major benefit to horns is that high output can come with low distortion without alot of power. I can't reiterate this enough. The bass is so smooth and in all of my demos this afternoon I never seemed to run out of headroom. I'd turn it up, think that was as good as it gets, than turn it up more and it continued to impress me without producing audible distortion. Lets just say I am easily able to find the limits of my EBS/LLT but have not found the limits of the THT yet. It's a bass nuts dream
Midway through my demoing I did notice a little vibration noise coming from the inside of the driver chamber. Sure enough, it was the speaker wire bouncing up and down. After shorting it from the terminal cup all was good.
As my wife was gone all afternoon. When she came back, she immediately ran down and gave me hell saying that the bass is so loud outside that it may upset the neighbors. Maybe I am evil, but I grinned..
To say I am extremely impressed is an understatement. I'll be doing some more tweaking this week with hopefully some measurements by next weekend. I haven't finalized my placement yet. For now it sits right next to my EBS/LLT.
My biggest worry now is what I am going todo with my EBS/LLT as it really is no longer needed.
With that said, I am sure some of you are sick of seeing this thread. I would have never guessed it would have gotten this long (27 pages and 395+ replies). There is something to be said about this though. There is without a doubt no way I would have been able to complete this project without the continued support and advice from the BFM community. This community is second to none. You guys rock and I appreciate all of your help. MaxMercy, I wanted to thank you personally as you inspired me to choose the THT over the Table Tuba from the very beginning and stuck with me to the end helping me out almost on a daily basis. I really do appreciate everyone's help.
There were alot of things that could have gone smoother.. Between my first DVC being defective to my Router breaking but this was a great journey. As you guys who have followed this thread know, I do this as a hobby on my own schedule. I encourage others who were on the fence to get up and build one of these.
Die Hard 4 YouTube Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kBHxasi8ko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kBHxasi8ko[/youtube]
Pussy Cat Dolls YouTube Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgRL9218th8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgRL9218th8[/youtube]
For the past 4 months, 18 days I have been waiting for today.. The day I can say "I am finished".
This afternoon I reinstalled the driver as the latex caulk had fully cured and again tested it for leaks along the 4 vertical lines and around the circumference. This time no leaks what so ever. That Latex caulk worked perfect.
I proceeded to install the access panel and than did another leak test. I did have to tighten it up a little bit more in a few spots that were experiencing small leaks but all is good now. That silicone tubing works like a charm to test for air leaks and encourage everyone to use this technique.
This afternoon I basically gave the the THT a run. No measurement equipment just my old ears.. I decided to play stuff that my ears were accustom to hearing with my EBS/LLT. For music I used Elton John and The Pussy Cat dolls, both live concerts. For movies, Transformers 1 & 2, Die Hard 4, Star Wars EP 1 PodRace scene DTS, and Bolt.
The first thing I noticed about the THT was it's efficiency. Everyone has told me it gets loud but me being a bass fanatic assumed it would be relatively loud but not CRAZY loud. Well.. You guys were right. This thing is crazy loud. It took me awhile to get acquainted with just how loud it gets. I am so used to the limits of my EBS/LLT there were sometimes I was running for the remote thinking the DVC in the THT was about to bottom out. But it never did. Only after did I started measuring the voltage did I get more confidence in cranking it up more.
Even without an SPL meter in hand I can easily say the THT dominates the EBS/LLT all day long. One of the main reasons I wanted to build the THT was because of its claim for great midbass (40 - 100hz). This was a goal for this project, to get back the midbass my EBS/LLT lacked. It was such a pleasure to feel a very tactile kick in the chest while playing both live concerts from Elton John and the Pussy Cat Dolls. It hit like I've never heard a home theater sub hit before. As for the ultra low bass below 40hz, I feel (no pun intended) the THT again dominates my EBS/LLT in this area too. As mentioned I am still getting used to crazy output of the THT and to prohibit any bottoming of the driver I configured a 48db/Butterworth @ 24hz highpass using my DCX2496. Steep slope, yes but the THT has so much output even crossed over this aggressively I still felt the lower octaves had ALOT more tactile effects. <Spoiler alert> Lets just say in Transformers 2 when Optimus dies and falls to the ground my vision blurred like I have never felt before (1:02 into movie). If I had to gauge, again with my ears I'd say the THT is at least 5x louder than the EBS/LLT.
As most who already have horns know, the major benefit to horns is that high output can come with low distortion without alot of power. I can't reiterate this enough. The bass is so smooth and in all of my demos this afternoon I never seemed to run out of headroom. I'd turn it up, think that was as good as it gets, than turn it up more and it continued to impress me without producing audible distortion. Lets just say I am easily able to find the limits of my EBS/LLT but have not found the limits of the THT yet. It's a bass nuts dream
Midway through my demoing I did notice a little vibration noise coming from the inside of the driver chamber. Sure enough, it was the speaker wire bouncing up and down. After shorting it from the terminal cup all was good
.As my wife was gone all afternoon. When she came back, she immediately ran down and gave me hell saying that the bass is so loud outside that it may upset the neighbors. Maybe I am evil, but I grinned..
To say I am extremely impressed is an understatement. I'll be doing some more tweaking this week with hopefully some measurements by next weekend. I haven't finalized my placement yet. For now it sits right next to my EBS/LLT.
My biggest worry now is what I am going todo with my EBS/LLT as it really is no longer needed.
With that said, I am sure some of you are sick of seeing this thread. I would have never guessed it would have gotten this long (27 pages and 395+ replies). There is something to be said about this though. There is without a doubt no way I would have been able to complete this project without the continued support and advice from the BFM community. This community is second to none. You guys rock and I appreciate all of your help. MaxMercy, I wanted to thank you personally as you inspired me to choose the THT over the Table Tuba from the very beginning and stuck with me to the end helping me out almost on a daily basis. I really do appreciate everyone's help.
There were alot of things that could have gone smoother.. Between my first DVC being defective to my Router breaking but this was a great journey. As you guys who have followed this thread know, I do this as a hobby on my own schedule. I encourage others who were on the fence to get up and build one of these.
Die Hard 4 YouTube Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kBHxasi8ko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kBHxasi8ko[/youtube]
Pussy Cat Dolls YouTube Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgRL9218th8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgRL9218th8[/youtube]
Re: myn's Tuba HT Build Thread
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:46 pm
Good to hear everything went well...congrats!
I will have to say, you are being very careful with it...24Hz 48dB high pass? I'm using a 24dB LR at ~13Hz for mine. Break out the REW, you'll find that you can cross much lower and less steep without angering the THT...it just depends on playback level. And if you don't boost the lows for a flat to 15Hz response, you really don't have to high-pass at all...if you keep it under 20V (that's all of 80 Watts). Which by the way, is good for ~120dB at 1 meter at 20Hz, and up from there, not counting room gain. But you are also approaching Xmax, so it's probably not a clean 20Hz. My THT has never seen more than 50 Watts, and usually sees around 20 Watts or so.
Upon an extensive comparo, you'll probably find that the LLT will start edging the THT out below 15-17Hz or so; there's only so much displacement available, but again, with the exception of few scenes in modern movies, there isn't lots of significant content down below 15Hz. Most movie bass is from 20Hz on up, and really strong beginning at 30Hz.
I'm sure you can find plenty of EBS/LLT enthusiasts to take the 18" off your hands...or you can play with your DCX and mess with delay and crossover settings and have it take over from 20Hz on down....REW should be able to tell you when you've got it right..
JSS
Remember to post a review, as this thread will eventually fall to the bottom of the list and go the way of the dodo...
I will have to say, you are being very careful with it...24Hz 48dB high pass? I'm using a 24dB LR at ~13Hz for mine. Break out the REW, you'll find that you can cross much lower and less steep without angering the THT...it just depends on playback level. And if you don't boost the lows for a flat to 15Hz response, you really don't have to high-pass at all...if you keep it under 20V (that's all of 80 Watts). Which by the way, is good for ~120dB at 1 meter at 20Hz, and up from there, not counting room gain. But you are also approaching Xmax, so it's probably not a clean 20Hz. My THT has never seen more than 50 Watts, and usually sees around 20 Watts or so.
Upon an extensive comparo, you'll probably find that the LLT will start edging the THT out below 15-17Hz or so; there's only so much displacement available, but again, with the exception of few scenes in modern movies, there isn't lots of significant content down below 15Hz. Most movie bass is from 20Hz on up, and really strong beginning at 30Hz.
I'm sure you can find plenty of EBS/LLT enthusiasts to take the 18" off your hands...or you can play with your DCX and mess with delay and crossover settings and have it take over from 20Hz on down....REW should be able to tell you when you've got it right..
JSS
Remember to post a review, as this thread will eventually fall to the bottom of the list and go the way of the dodo...
Re: myn's Tuba HT Build Thread
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:10 am
I've been reading, been watching, and been waiting. And now I can finally say it. WOW. This has been one.. incredible...thread...27 pages long!
Congrats on the journey. Congrats on the end result. Thanks for sharing.
Congrats on the journey. Congrats on the end result. Thanks for sharing.
Re: myn's Tuba HT Build Thread
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 3:54 am
...and they all lived happily ever after!
Congrats!
Congrats!
Re: myn's Tuba HT Build Thread
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:21 am
What an adventure.
Congratulations
Congratulations
Re: myn's Tuba HT Build Thread
Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:27 pm
[== 10/24/2009 ==]
As I have decided to use my DCX2496 with my Panasonic XR55 receiver I'm going to need to use my Art Cleanbox to boost my receivers consumer line level input to take complete advantage of the 24bit DA in the DCX2496. Unfortunately the Cleanbox has a nasty declining slope starting around 35hz towards the bottom end of the frequency spectrum where our subs like to be. I'm in the process of modding it with better suited caps so it should be flat into the single digits. I'm currently using the DCX2496 without it and I can barely get -20 on the input leds.
I was hoping to have some measurement graphs out by today. Just waiting on an email from a guy about what capacitor affects which channel on the Art Cleanbox. My measurements will be totally off if I don't get this thing solidified first.
In the mean time I made a couple of vids showing distortion measurements (or lack there of) 121db @ 22hz @ 10.8v with no detectable distortion. I am sure I could have pushed it alot further but was cognizant of my neighbors.
On another note, Do you guys need to retighten up your access panels and/or screws around the driver that often? I did another leak test last night and found a very tiny leak around the access panel. I'm suspecting it's because the imperfect (warped) access panel is now screwed down flat and over the week it allowed for some extra room which caused the leak. That or maybe the pressure buildup inside of the access chamber.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIBdkXW_jns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIBdkXW_jns[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--7My1qU1Eg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--7My1qU1Eg[/youtube]
As I have decided to use my DCX2496 with my Panasonic XR55 receiver I'm going to need to use my Art Cleanbox to boost my receivers consumer line level input to take complete advantage of the 24bit DA in the DCX2496. Unfortunately the Cleanbox has a nasty declining slope starting around 35hz towards the bottom end of the frequency spectrum where our subs like to be. I'm in the process of modding it with better suited caps so it should be flat into the single digits. I'm currently using the DCX2496 without it and I can barely get -20 on the input leds.
I was hoping to have some measurement graphs out by today. Just waiting on an email from a guy about what capacitor affects which channel on the Art Cleanbox. My measurements will be totally off if I don't get this thing solidified first.
In the mean time I made a couple of vids showing distortion measurements (or lack there of) 121db @ 22hz @ 10.8v with no detectable distortion. I am sure I could have pushed it alot further but was cognizant of my neighbors.
On another note, Do you guys need to retighten up your access panels and/or screws around the driver that often? I did another leak test last night and found a very tiny leak around the access panel. I'm suspecting it's because the imperfect (warped) access panel is now screwed down flat and over the week it allowed for some extra room which caused the leak. That or maybe the pressure buildup inside of the access chamber.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIBdkXW_jns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIBdkXW_jns[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--7My1qU1Eg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--7My1qU1Eg[/youtube]
Re: myn's Tuba HT Build Thread
Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:55 am
Not sure if the DCX is anything like the DEQ, but IIRC the latter has in it's documentation a way of wiring the XLR to cinch for connecting to consumer levels. When you wire your cables like that, it appears to automatically reset to consumer levels for input/output. Might be worth checking your manual for a similar feature on the DCX.
Re: myn's Tuba HT Build Thread
Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:40 am
+1. My now ancient DSP 8024 runs just fine at consumer level.AntonZ wrote:Not sure if the DCX is anything like the DEQ, but IIRC the latter has in it's documentation a way of wiring the XLR to cinch for connecting to consumer levels. When you wire your cables like that, it appears to automatically reset to consumer levels for input/output. Might be worth checking your manual for a similar feature on the DCX.