Omni 15 and Omni Sub

[Mikey]

I intend to build a pair of OT12 this winter and I am entertaining the idea of recycling the 3015LFs from the Omni Subs into a pair of horns, but which ones ... Suggestions anyone.

T48s. Biamp them to your O15TBs.

T48s use the 3015s but probably would not work well indoors for recorded music.

Poppycock.

I'm glad that the O15Subs served your purposes and kept you working. That's really a nice looking rig! The inclusion of T48s will be a good step up, especially since you get to re-use the drivers.

[Marko Rooseno]

I think there is a spot for the Omni 'subs', but it is limited. As a stand alone unit or a pair they make sense. As part of a modular system the concept falls apart. If the user wishes to have a system that will be usable in any venue by adding more cabs, the Tuba or Titan are still the best choices.

I think this nails it. Okay, build once, cry once, yes, but it really depends on your needs and wants. As a solitary unit, say a backline sub or something, there are merits to an O15 sub, and it's not a bastardisation of any sort, it's in the plans. The plan presents options to use all woofer/mid/tweeter, woofer/mid, or woofer only. I noticed this is key to all of Bill's designs, there are always options.

But if you're looking for something you can build up on, like PA use, then one would definitely swing to Tubas or Titans. Again, more options - cabinet widths, woofer choice, woofer quantity, etc.

Also things to look out for in an O15s, the expensive driver (3015LF against whatever driver in Tubas or Titans), and it's (more or less) a one size thing (Tubas or Titans you can adjust the widths).

But with that quick n easy of a build and not bad of a result, this might just be the deciding factor for beginners who doesn't have the woodworking skills needed to build the other cabs. Woodworking is an art, and just like any other art, it has to be exercised repetitively to build up the skills, and some people while having the right aspirations maybe they don't have the luxury to master it, either time, space, money (hey, art is expensive), you name it.

After weighing the above, the O15s is becoming one strong option for me should I build a sub - I have no measurable woodworking skills, it'll be cheaper and faster to build, and it'll get the job done with good results with bass as a standalone unit.

[Mikey]

After weighing the above, the O15s is becoming one strong option for me should I build a sub - I have no measurable woodworking skills, it'll be cheaper and faster to build, and it'll get the job done with good results with bass as a standalone unit.

The O15Sub would probably not work well as a stand-alone unit for bass guitar. WB's measurement shows that the O15Sub falls like a stone after 800hz.

I'd suggest that you start by building your O10.5, then build an O15TBsub to supplement it, if you need it. With your limited woodworking skills, both of these designs make sense. This system would give you great versatility.

[Harley]

I'd suggest that you start by building your O10.5, then build an O15TBsub to supplement it, if you need it. .

He plays elect bass.

O10.5 with an O15 sub is not be a recommendation I'd be making in that instance. There are much better selections available in the Bf range which have been proposed many times over before.

Buy once, cry once.....build once cry once

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

O10.5 with an O15 sub is not be a recommendation I'd be making in that instance.

Me either. Building an O15 without the mid driver and then adding another full range cab atop it to handle the midrange just doesn't make any sense.

[Mikey]

O10.5 with an O15 sub is not be a recommendation I'd be making in that instance.

Me either. Building an O15 without the mid driver and then adding another full range cab atop it to handle the midrange just doesn't make any sense.

For versatility ... not everyone wants to haul around a ~8 cu ft cab all of the time if a cab that big isn't always needed (same reason some guys go with the T39/DR250 combo). In terms of size, an O15Sub is a little smaller than a 24"w T24 and a 20"w T39. For practicing, small gigs and perhaps rehearsals, the O10.5 would be a good stand-alone, and it's not as difficult to build as DRs. A T39 or T24 would undoubtedly be better sub choices, but Marko has admitted having very little woodworking skills and expressed that he's interrested in the O15Sub for that particular reason.

Of course, another option is that he could build two O10.5s, using one or two as needed, provided they supply adequate low end for his tastes.

[Harley]

Of course, another option is that he could build two O10.5s, using one or two as needed, provided they supply adequate low end for his tastes.

For portability and complete versatility, if your amp handles 2 ohm - make it three O10.5 - so long as your pocket can handle the $

Otherwise - DR250/T39 - the best

or

O15 TB -the next best.

The O15 TB ( 3015lf with 8mid and tweets ) is certainly a "one does all grunt bass cab, but that cab you have to lug anywhere you play including your practice room.

As you're not a bass player Mikey, what you don't realise is that in most groups and in reality, bass players tend to be more organised ( I'm not joking here ), get to the gig on or before time and end up not only carrying their own gear in but that of the drummer ( who has so much stuff it would sink a ship ) and the guitarist who is often late...along with the PA gear. I'm not getting down on guitarists or drummers, but that is reality.

We had a survey on AB many moons ago about this and it is an all too familiar story.

There are exceptions of course and I imagine the likes of Tim would be waiting for the bass player to turn up, plus he will have the PA gear in his truck

So, the easier the bassist's gear is to lug, the better!

[Mikey]

As you're not a bass player Mikey, what you don't realise is that in most groups and in reality, bass players tend to be more organised ( I'm not joking here ), get to the gig on or before time and end up not only carrying their own gear in but that of the drummer ( who has so much stuff it would sink a ship ) and the guitarist who is often late...along with the PA gear. I'm not getting down on guitarists or drummers, but that is reality.

Actually, I play guitar and bass, and teach both. In the band, I play guitar, my Son plays bass, and we both lug a LOT of stuff ... instruments, amps, PA, lights, etc. The drummer actually has it EASY, because he just has to worry about his kit. He almost always gets there after us and leaves before us. But I do realise that this is not "the norm".

After a real long break, we're ready to play again, and I'm REAL anxious to get some gigs booked and get back on stage!

DR250/T39 - the best

I definately take your word for that, and it seems to be the consensus of those who have compared. Unfortunately, not everyone has the woodworking skills and/or the confidence to build them. Like the DR250, an O10.5 can be stand-alone, and like the T39, the O15Sub can be added for larger gigs and/or where more bottom is desired ... similar, reasonable options for someone without the skills to build "the best".

the easier the bassist's gear is to lug, the better

That goes for any and all gear, especially as we get older. A O10.5 is smaller than a DR250 and an O15Sub is smaller than a 20"w T39, so this combo isn't ridiculously large. I had also recommended that, for this rig, the TallBoy dimensions be used for the sub, to match the 20" width of the O10.5, so, obviously, it could be built with a handle and casters on the back for easy dollying, like the T39.

[Tim A]

One point that keeps being pushed is that on Omni 15 is smaller than a 20" T-39. The fact is it's the same height and the same width. The only difference is 2-1/2" in depth. To me, that doesn't make enough difference to recommend it over a T-39. You aren't saving setup space or pack space and you aren't saving much in weight. The standard version is the same CuFt., just shaped differently. I haven't taken the time to cost it out, but I'm sure the larger driver makes it about the same cost as a T-39, maybe a bit higher.

There are reasons to build it, the most obvious being ease of construction. In practice it'll be best used as a single unit or pair, after which the Titan makes much more sense.

From a practical standpoint, the only reasons to build this cab as a sub are if you simply can't build a Titan or if you're in a big hurry and need something ASAP.

[bgavin]

If Bill's charts are accurate, the O15 outperforms my T39/24"/12LF box below 65 Hz. I'll know for sure when I do measurements side-by-side.

Link to T39 Chart

[Mikey]

Tim, you always seem to hit the nail on the head and clarify things well.

One point that keeps being pushed is that on Omni 15 is smaller than a 20" T-39. The fact is it's the same height and the same width. The only difference is 2-1/2" in depth.

It's 1 cu ft smaller, that's it. The fact that it's SPL chart compares with a 30"w T39, which is >5 cu ft larger , is cool though.

To me, that doesn't make enough difference to recommend it over a T-39 ... There are reasons to build it, the most obvious being ease of construction. In practice it'll be best used as a single unit or pair, after which the Titan makes much more sense ... From a practical standpoint, the only reasons to build this cab as a sub are if you simply can't build a Titan or if you're in a big hurry

I think that's where the misunderstanding has come-in. Nobody recommended the O15Sub OVER the T39. It's just an option for exactly the reasons you stated.

I haven't taken the time to cost it out, but I'm sure the larger driver makes it about the same cost as a T-39, maybe a bit higher.

A 3015LF is about $100 more than an S2012, where-as the only extra comparative cost for a T39 would be an extra sheet of plywood (well, maybe an extra tube of PL, too?). So, the O15Sub will have a bit higher total cost. Depending on the difference in build time, and if you were to put a monetary value on your time, that could swing the other way. But, for most of us, time spent building is part of the enjoyment, so we'd simply consider the O15Sub a little more expensive.

Guys, again, I just wanna say that this whole thing is just based on a simple observation and curiosity from a long time ago, and nobody is pushing it. When the subject comes-up, I only chime-in to make sure that the gives and takes of the mod are "part of record" in the thread, so that nobody reads a thread and builds it without understanding it's limitations compared to Tubas and Titans. I feel somewhat responsible since I started that thread way back when. Do I plan to build one? No, it's not on my list (T48s are)... but never say never.

[Harley]

I think that's where the misunderstanding has come-in. Nobody recommended the O15Sub OVER the T39...

....but....

.... However, personally, when the thread was all said and done, I felt that a pair of O15Subs could also be a reasonable, viable, and even preferred option, in particular cases where there was absolutely no intent for expansion, such as a big bass guitar rig or a strictly-club PA for about 300 and under.

[Mikey]

If Bill's charts are accurate, the O15 outperforms my T39/24"/12LF box below 65 Hz.

According to Bill's charts, it should.

His charts of the O15 are from measurement of the prototype, which used an EVM-15B driver. Your measurement with a 3015LF will be good to have available.

[Mikey]

.... However, personally, when the thread was all said and done, I felt that a pair of O15Subs could also be a reasonable, viable, and even preferred option, in particular cases where there was absolutely no intent for expansion, such as a big bass guitar rig or a strictly-club PA for about 300 and under.

"in particular cases", for all of the reasons which have been beaten to death.

[MYork]

There are reasons to build it, the most obvious being ease of construction. In practice it'll be best used as a single unit or pair, after which the Titan makes much more sense.

From a practical standpoint, the only reasons to build this cab as a sub are if you simply can't build a Titan or if you're in a big hurry and need something ASAP.

I didn't find the OmniTB15s easier to build, just different problems, especially the midrange horn. In addition, the three crossovers costs a minor fortune and create hassles of their own. OTOH, I really like the way the TB15s sound.

The OT15 sub peaked my interest since the indoor instructor said he wanted "more lows" for synths, SO I thought I could use the Tubas or Titan48. Bill indicated "Using T24s or T48s along with an O15 to add more LF capacity can work, but matching the phase responses is a difficult proposition. OTOH the O15 sub is an O15 without the mid and HF section, and having the same phase response can be simply paralleled for additional LF power." MY