New Build - T30s and then Otops to follow

[escapemcp]

I have used black Warnex on my WH8 build and found it very easy to apply with a small coarse foam roller and get a consistent and good looking texture. I cannot tell yet how good it will hold up over time and abuse.

Mmm... speaker porn! Lovely cab mate Am loving the WH8 cutout, and was thinking (well, more hoping) of doing something like that - I know someone who may be able to do this sort of a cut with a router (it is done with a router, yes? ). Doesn't this weaken the sides, or have you adjusted the width of the sides to compensate (which is much more do-able I guess, than changing the width of internals)?

Continued thanks to you all, I like it here

[AntonZ]

Mmm... speaker porn! Lovely cab mate Am loving the WH8 cutout, and was thinking (well, more hoping) of doing something like that - I know someone who may be able to do this sort of a cut with a router (it is done with a router, yes? ). Doesn't this weaken the sides, or have you adjusted the width of the sides to compensate (which is much more do-able I guess, than changing the width of internals)?

Thanks for the thumbs up. It was experimental, quite happy indeed with how it turned out.

See here for the first one
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 14&t=17378

And done the same to my other wedge
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 06#p204406

Yes, router indeed. It takes some time, but it is not hard to do. Condensed step by step:

print text with large font on paper
glue paper to scrap ply
cut with jigsaw
sand jig for smoother edges
screw jig to wedge side
follow template with pattern follow ring on the router
sand edges smooth
fill screw holes and sand
pre-paint inside the routered logo with a brush
paint entire cab with coarse foam roller

It is only a few mm deep, so I do not think the panel needs reinforcement after this.

[escapemcp]

Thanks for the thumbs up. It was experimental, quite happy indeed with how it turned out

Yeah, you should be If my OT12s end up as nice as that I'll be a very happy man

Bill, I haven't got a paypal account, and cannot get one (there was an 'incident' and they don't seem to like me any more ) It seemed pretty definite that you ONLY accept paypal, is this still the case? Will probably have to find someone else with a PP account, but will that cause any issues for me later on when you issue updated plans? Thanks Yoda, you'll be hearing from me in a week or so I can't wait to start mulling over the plans as this forum has been far too well read by me now!!! Think I have read the "Got a question? Look here first" threads about 10 times now

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

We only take PayPal, and we only ship to the PayPal email address of record. Suggest you kiss and make up.

[escapemcp]

OK, paypal it is

Just thinking about amps. Am tempted by the Berry iNuke DSP models, but was wondering what wattage amps you would need for T30 Lab12s and a couple of Otop12's - subs on one amp, tops on the other. Again, as I don't have the plans (yet ), I don't know what the voltage required for either speaker is and thus cannot calculate the wattage. Also, I read somewhere that you need to add on a few ohms for impedance as the driver is in a horn (and a thin throated one at that) - am I right in assuming that this must be included in the power calculation also. I.e. if a Lab12 is 6 ohms, and the enclosure adds, say, 2ohms, then for calculating, say, a 40V swing (or is that 80V swing (+/-40V)?), then P=V^2/R = P=40^2/6+2 = 1600/8 = 200W. Is this correct?

Also, would the DSP on those Berry amps totally negate the use of a DCX/DEQ combo. Yes, a bit more fiddly to set up (unless you have a PC, as the iNuke setup program is a little less 'homebrew' than the DEQ one!), but does it do everything I need? The price comes in at around the same, although I cannot then use the DSP on another amp. I can see Xover, PEQ and limiting on the iNuke, so I *think* it does everything (unless I have missed something). I like the idea that the limit is set on the amp, so it would be impossible to bypass the limiter if it was a separate unit (even if this is v.v.unlikely!). I suppose if I had 2 of those amps, then someone could plug tops into the sub amp and vice versa, so damage could be done that way. I certainly don't intend to be leaving my system whilst it is running, but sometimes at these parties things can get a bit messy, and I'd just like that extra level of protection - if I could whack a NL-8 connector on one of the amps and on the corresponding speakers, then it would be nigh on impossible to damage through stupidity (probably my own when I am not paying enough attention! - it's happened once before so I want to make sure that I don't do it again !)

[Grant Bunter]

Lab 12's are limited to 50V and yes the cabs work out to be 8 ohms as "seen" by the amp.

I found this not long back:
http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/electri ... ulator.htm
Entering any 2 values lets you hit calculate to get all 4 values. Lazy huh? lol

Using it gives me 313W/8ohms. If you were to run 2 cabs in parallel per channel, the amp needs to have output = to or greater than 625W.

So an amp capable of that on one channel will be more than enough for Otops in parallel on the other channel.

Plenty of people use Behringer Inukes.
Your decision to use them with their inbuilt DSP may come back to the parameters available.
I don't know the Inuke parameters, so check them out.
If the slopes in the Inukes (for high pass and low pass) are not that great, (ie they should be say 24dB slopes minimum), or the increments in limiting are 3dB, but you would prefer 1dB increments etc etc etc, then using a DCX with non DSP amps is the other way to go.
The DEQ will certainly be more comprehensive than EQ in the Inuke.
As with (almost) anything Berry, troll all the forums to see what, if any, the common problems are with the Inuke amps, and see if any of those problems make them deal breakers.

I know a lot of the guys from the US talk about equipment specified in riders. Berry gear generally doesn't make the cut. If you have a similar system in the UK, or don't know, it might be worth exploring since you plan to grow a business.

I have half a dozen pieces of Berry gear roughly. I didn't know/ wasn't aware I might need to know if it was acceptable when I bought it.
Suffice to say, if it becomes a problem, it will be substituted...

[escapemcp]

Lab 12's are limited to 50V and yes the cabs work out to be 8 ohms as "seen" by the amp.

http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/electri ... ulator.htm
Entering any 2 values lets you hit calculate to get all 4 values. Lazy huh? lol

Using it gives me 313W/8ohms. If you were to run 2 cabs in parallel per channel, the amp needs to have output = to or greater than 625W.

So an amp capable of that on one channel will be more than enough for Otops in parallel on the other channel.

Yes, very lazy I always start at V=IR and P=IV and then work out what I need from there - sods law, of course, that the one value I don't usually need, I is in both equations, so always have to get rid of it!

For SQ purposes, do people generally run the Otops as a mono pair, or do they go for stereo? Due to the finances, I would probably start off with a single >=625W amp running a mono config, but would like to run the Otops in stereo if it is feasable later on (obv. with an extra amp). This is because Psytrance tends to use quite a bit of panning to make sounds fly around the room, in order to with peoples heads I would lose that if running in mono.

Also have looked at the <35Hz content in Psytrance, and there is a shed load of it down there! In my mind this confirms the Tuba route (and makes me want some T60s -but that comes later ).

Getting paid on Tuesday, can't wait to start digesting some plans and then start making some sawdust a short while later. Will post detailed pics as I go and as I have mentioned before, everyone's help has been invaluable, you guys (& any girls here ) rock! The amount of "I've been doing this for 20 years and you can't do that" comments I have been getting is funny... I cannot wait to wipe smiles from some faces and start making them question their long-held beliefs!

[escapemcp]

If the slopes in the Inukes (for high pass and low pass) are not that great, (ie they should be say 24dB slopes minimum), or the increments in limiting are 3dB, but you would prefer 1dB increments etc etc etc, then using a DCX with non DSP amps is the other way to go.
The DEQ will certainly be more comprehensive than EQ in the Inuke.

I have just downloaded the iNuke setup program from http://www.behringerdownload.de/iNuke/i ... _V01-1.zip. You can download it and run it on your PC without any need to install it, so once you have had a look you can delete it without any worry and nothing left behind. It seems to have some very nice features:

48dB slopes on the Xover
Nice, simple to use graphical interface (as opposed to the DCX's 'student project' look which I had difficulty getting to grips with)
Limiting can be done in volts (I think, it says "Vp" - unsure what the p stands for - peak maybe?). You have to enter the speakers' resistance first, (can only choose 2, 4, 8 or 16 though)
The limiting is done in 0.1dB steps or possibly 0.1V steps (if you change the V then the dB doesn't change )
8 band parametric EQ + 2 band dynamic EQ and it looks like you can use them at once

So it is looking like the one for me. The only issue is if the amp goes south (or is in north - never understood that expression!), then the DSP dies too

Sorry if I am teaching you guys to suck eggs and you already know this but I am just putting it here to maybe help someone else who is looking into the same amp solution.

And I just went for a fag break, and found a Bosch circular saw (PKS-54) in the garage with fence and 45° cut angle on it - just saved myself some money which may now get spent on a router! The fence is only about a foot long though... is this normal and if so, how do you cut pieces wider than a foot, or can you buy an extra long fence? This is the one:

And in case I haven't mentioned before, thank you thank you thank you for all your help and advice!

[Grant Bunter]

The inuke sounds fine then in terms of parameters.
Hopefully some people here who use them can chime in about any potential problems, if you haven't searched for them already.

IIRC stereo effects from tops disappear around 13 feet/3.5m ish. Or stand on the right side tops cab and you can't hear the effect from the left cab. There will be a sweet spot between both tops where the stereo effects are heard, but that's about it. Nothing wrong with stereo down the track, but also nothing wrong with stereo summed to mono, as all the effects will be there, just not panned. 625W will be too much for the Otops, so limiting them is one way to balance the tops with the subs.

Nice to see you have a saw already. Take that fence off the saw and carefully store it in the box the saw came in, or the garbage, never to see the light of day again.
Those fences flex and bend. They are hopelessly inadequate for any attempt at precise cutting over any distance.
I bought a digital angle rule (for not much) and used that to set my blade angles, I found my saw to be a few degrees out with it's angle setting guide.
When you get your plans, get the panel jig plans as well. The few dollars extra it costs will include a 0 degree cutting sled that is so much more accurate. As well as other jigs for when you build your Otops...

[escapemcp]

Nice to see you have a saw already. Take that fence off the saw and carefully store it in the box the saw came in, or the garbage, never to see the light of day again.
Those fences flex and bend. They are hopelessly inadequate for any attempt at precise cutting over any distance.
I bought a digital angle rule (for not much) and used that to set my blade angles, I found my saw to be a few degrees out with it's angle setting guide.
When you get your plans, get the panel jig plans as well. The few dollars extra it costs will include a 0 degree cutting sled that is so much more accurate. As well as other jigs for when you build your Otops...

Many thanks Grant for that From what I have read, the panel jig ISN'T necessary, but IS designed to make like sooo much easier. I have no idea what is even in the jig 'pack' and how it relates to my build, but I will cede to better knowledge found on this board and buy it - maybe buy several as they are so cheap. If 1 of them makes it waay easier, then maybe 5 of them would build the speakers for me if I just point the printouts toward wood and the saw whilst make a cup of tea!

Digital angle rule on shopping list.. save the money on the saw, now to spend it elsewhere

[AntonZ]

The panel jig is for table saws. It is well worth the few extra $ but no use with your handheld circular saw. I think the plans include instructions to make yourself a saw sled. That is a great help for making dead straight cuts with your saw.

[iamlowsound]

The saw you show seems to be a mitre saw.

This is the circular saw i use. <15 year old Makita.

As someone that worked as a framer for almost 4 years, that Makita is the best circular saw that has ever been made. Light, well balanced, virtually indestructible and priced well. Also, if you are cutting angles with a circular saw, get an angle gauge as mentioned earlier, the built in ones are for rough cutting where 5 degrees doesn't really matter.

lowsound

[escapemcp]

OK many thanks for all of that. Payday tomorrow, so I'll finally be getting some plans to digest
Another question, although I don't know if I should post it here or as a new thread: When running class D amps, I have read about issues with brownouts (which blow up the amps ), but am also worried about PEAK current draw. Does anyone know if I am running a iNuke Nu3000, what sort of size genny I would need. I read on one review that the Nu6000 can draw (albeit very briefly) up to about 25A (although it wasn't mentioned whether it was 110 or 220V, but even at 110, that is 2.75KVa). If I had a genny that was too small, would this mean that the amp couldn't draw enough power, which would then result in a brownout condition, in turn resulting in blown amp?
Am thinking I should post this as a question in the other forum, but I don't want to clog up your forums with all my questions in my relentless thirst for knowledge Please let me know if I should open a new thread, and again, many thanks

[Jon Barnhardt]

Well, here in the states, if you get a generator that can provide twenty amps at constant draw, you have the same conditions that would exist if you were plugged into the wall.

Not sure what circuit sizes are across the pond.

[88h88]

I was under the impression that these new fangled 'digital' amps didn't like generators all too much. Someone on here had issues with them going squiffy due to the generator not being able to supply a perfectly stable current. Might be worth a search.