It seems that England has fallen apart.

[bzb]

It's exactly because of guns that this doesn't happen in the US.....especially in concealed-carry states. You never know who might be packing.

Los Angeles, 1992

I lived in California. If I recall correctly, there was an "assault weapons" ban in the 80s, which was highly confusing. And although they have a CCW license in California, it's not a Shall Issue city/county/state. I think it's a Restrictive "May Issue", meaning it's up to the discretion of the Sherriff. Therefore, it's pretty frickin hard to get a CCW anywhere near LA.

And in the burbs, we certainly didn't think anything of the riots. That was all in south central. It was of slight concern, and we watched it on the news, but earthquakes and wildfires were higher on the priority list of "disaster preparation". Do you remember what stopped the riots?

Also, goes back to the "culture of the poor" comment above. Although that incident really didn't have any semblance to the one in the UK.

[bzb]

Hopefully tonight will be quiet although the trouble seems to be heading north It made me exceptionally proud to see the clean up today, I've got to say!

Hope you stay safe, bud. Were there any incidents around you?

[Bruce Weldy]

It's exactly because of guns that this doesn't happen in the US.....especially in concealed-carry states. You never know who might be packing.

Los Angeles, 1992

Yep, once again.....a state and city with strict gun control laws. Ever notice that this kind of thing doesn't happen in Dallas, Phoenix, or Houston? Only seems to happen in cities with the strictest gun control laws.... L.A., Philly, Detroit.....see a pattern here?

Hell, down here even the liberals have guns. It's not a political position - it's an attitude that says, "you can't have my stuff".

It's sad what's happening in England and other places around the world. And money, education, or government programs isn't going to fix it. Until personal responsibility is expected from all citizens - it will always be somebody else's fault. Being poor and uneducated is absolutely no excuse for bad behavior - I know my poor and uneducated ancestors would have never stood for this crap, and they would be insulted at the idea that only rich and educated people can have character, honor, and integrity.

Anyway, no more out of me on this issue.

[cheapbasslovin]

Culture of the poor in the US is:
- disregarding education as an important responsibility. More emphasis on sports, pop music, or lottery winnings as a "way out".
- disregarding attention to the kids as a parent. "That's the teacher's job."
- a culture of violence and disrespect.

Well there it is. Every poor family falls into this situation. Economic disparity plays no role.

Due to little money is a fallacy. A "poor" family in the United States has more expendable income than a family making $60k a year due to the welfare state.

This is a flat out lie. http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Welfare.html

About halfway down this link there is a table laying out the total expendable income of the poor in relation to their earned income. I make about $60000 a year and I can assure you I have more expendable income at the end of the year than any of those figures.

Due to little food, laughable. Seriously, show me where is the famine in the most obese country in the world?

You notice any real trim fit homeless? Most of the homeless I see are fat. I would venture to say they don't have a great selection of food. Obesity is related to the quality of nutrition you receive as well as the total quantity of food. Nutrition affects your ability to learn.

Due to both parents... er, what?

No stay at home parents means less supervision and less interaction in their childs daily lives. Low incomes combined with less supervision compounds this effect due to parents seeking overtime to offset their costs. I know I'm tired and want a break after work, and I don't even need that much overtime. Up the workload to 50 or 60 hours a week and I'm sure that becomes even more overwhelming.

As far as trade unions go: competition. If you don't understand what competition would do to enhance our school system, then you're exactly the undereducated problem. The reason our universities are the top in the world (and yet our K-12 is NOT) is because of competition. Competition for students, competition for curriculum, and competition for university staff. Trade unions absolutely stifle any semblance of competition.

Thank you for calling me dumb. Kill the unions, see how many qualified teachers are left. Competition will force competent teachers into other fields.

Know any home schooled kids? Ask the parents how tough of a time they have with the government. Know of any local charter schools? Ask the founders what kind of hoops they had to jump through to get it started... and what issues they face now.

My kids are home schooled. No problems here.

And finally, lack of funding: that is such an ignorant statement, and it's so pervasive in our country. That thinking absolutely needs to be stopped, and you need to educate yourself on the entire issue. In the US, we spend the most per child on education every year (and that EXCLUDES private education), and the schools get worse every year. Keep throwing money at the system that squanders it... great solution.

Yes, lack of funding. Thank you for calling me dumb again. Teachers are underpaid. You want better teachers, pay them more. You want better schools, pay for the facilities. Stop throwing moneys at programs sponsored by the local lobbyist and simply teach the students. You made mention of private schools ability to kick students out. Public schools can't do this. Public schools also cant leverage their student body for more money. This is why public schools cost more, plain and simple.

I know quite a few teachers myself. Yes, they spend money in their classrooms... but in my area, the parents are involved and donate a lot of time, money, and supplies to their schools. We make it a priority in our community, and that's why our high school here is ranked #3 in the state. The teachers love what they're doing. They're not in it for the money. And if they got into for the money - you really need to question them teaching anything to your child, if they couldn't figure out that they wouldn't become rich from teaching.

Sounds like an affluent area. I know teachers aren't into it for the money. So why do you feel the need to keep kicking them in the balls when they are already working for less than they are worth?

[bzb]

Just take a look.



And to nip this in the bud, yes I've personally been poor. No, I did not take government assistance. I was helped by my family and by working my butt off in multiple jobs.

Edit: wrote a bunch of rebuttals, too political in this thread. I'm done.

I just wanted to know if the British were into guns now

[subharmonic]

My thoughts and prayers are with you guys over there. Keep the faith and may those with bad intentions pass you and yours. Hopefully this will remedied quickly.

[cheapbasslovin]

Just take a look.



And to nip this in the bud, yes I've personally been poor. No, I did not take government assistance. I was helped by my family and by working my butt off in multiple jobs.

Edit: wrote a bunch of rebuttals, too political in this thread. I'm done.

I just wanted to know if the British were into guns now

Last year I paid less than $900 federal income tax. My only deductions were interest on my house, my dependents and some work expenses. I did not cheat on my taxes. I'll leave it at that.

[bzb]

I see, so you're fine with giving other people's money away, just not yours.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Last year I paid less than $900 federal income tax. My only deductions were interest on my house, my dependents and some work expenses. I did not cheat on my taxes. I'll leave it at that.

I paid about the same in taxes. Being self-employed I also dropped some $6,000 to social security, but that's just an automatic retirement savings account, so I don't care about that.
I take it your point is that those figures are piffel. Agreed. If the propagandist who compiled them thinks living on $14.5k a year is a walk in the park by all means he should do so. He'll find that he's not only walking in the park, he's also sleeping there.

[cheapbasslovin]

I see, so you're fine with giving other people's money away, just not yours.

Actually I believe there are very few people paying their fair share in taxes, including myself, but I'll be damned if I'm going to be the only one falling on my sword and overpaying (adequately paying). The national debt didn't create itself.

Bill, you got where I was going.

[el_ingeniero]

Good question. Seems to be definately not. We would rather they got a good kicking than have guns. I think we understand that guns just lead to an escalation which can't be won.

Can't help feeling that if this was the US, there would already have been automatic weapons used and dozens of deaths. And that would be far more scary.

It's exactly because of guns that this doesn't happen in the US.....especially in concealed-carry states. You never know who might be packing.

Automatic weapons are illegal and harder to come by. You probably mean semi-automatic.

Switzerland requires every household to own a gun.....very little crime there.

Flat out not true.

Switzerland does require that every member of the militia (pretty much every adult male between the ages of 20 and 30) keep his service weapon at home. The militia has 400,000 members, and there are 3 million households in Switzerland, so 13% of all households have an assault weapon in the house.

However, the gun is pretty well useless for home defense: it has to be kept unloaded under lock and key, and the ammunition issue is kept in a sealed box, and all of that gets inspected regularly.

Aside from that, Switzerland has much stricter gun control laws than any US state. You need a permit for each weapon you own, and you need a separate permit to carry, which is generally only issued to people in security related professions. Ammunition is also registered.

As a result, gun crime in Switzerland stands at about 25% of that in the US, which still leaves them the #2 country for gun crime in the world.

[Chris_Allen]

Well, it would appear that the hardcore rioters, who have a strong anti-government message, have been defeated by rain. That doesn't sound like a group of people who believe in what they are doing - more like a group of people who just want to steal and break things.

[wounded horse]

tax evasion and avoidance are common personal principles now because people don't like where the money is squandered. Corporate tax avoidance is one of the biggest stinks we have here. Private individuals see the big guys do it and think "I'll have some of that too". Everything is too expensive here. Everything. Plywood, drivers.......

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Ammunition is also registered.

Chris Rock got it right. Guns don't kill people, bullets do. Let everyone have a gun. Price the ammunition at $100 per bullet.

Well, it would appear that the hardcore rioters, who have a strong anti-government message, have been defeated by rain

It also appears that the main component of the rioters is, surprise surprise, unemployed young men. And the main anti-government message? That the dole has been cut and they want it back.
The cure for the lack of jobs for these losers?
Switzerland does require that every member of the militia (pretty much every adult male between the ages of 20 and 30)

[Gregory East]

Chris Rock, great sketch. "I wanna pop a cap in yo Mutha...but man, 5 GRAND! Yo ass ain't worth 5 GRAND"