Sorry again, that I couldn't get to your responses earlier, but I have been particularly busy with fraternity showcases, school, my regular gigs and getting reacquainted with my often neglected mistress named Sleep (I need a new mattress, Sleep Number preferably
).
I'm still digesting a lot of this, so please bear with this newbie. I'll attempt to respond to everything that has been said logically (hopefully).
I am still weighing all alternatives and still looking for the Better of them. I have been trying to write down all the pros versus cons on my whiteboard because I am more of a visual learner and that displays it best for me.
I have kind of dropped the 280s. I'm up in the air between the 200s v. 250s, but I am leaning towards the 200s because of the cheaper build price and compact size. The 250s I like because I would need less cabs to produce the same amount of sound.
As far as subs, I just don't know. I feel like a kid in a candy store. There are just too many possibilities, but the good thing, I gather, is that I will be happy no matter what I choose. That's why I am looking for the better alternative that fall in line with my current needs and future requirements.
Good thing I have the whole catalog of cabinets (had it for about a year now). So far I have built just the autotuba, but so many of my friends are ready to buy my box with the tiny 8" driver, they have to get/build their own though. A good friend offered me 250 for my box, so I feel the catalog CD has paid for itself, even though I didn't sell my Autotuba (it has sentimental value
). GET THE CD IT'S WORTH IT.
DJ Big Ronn wrote:Im sure someone with a little more expeirience will chime in, but it's my understanding that you would need at least 6 possibly 8 t-39's with those drivers to keep up with 4 3015lf loaded T-48's
This is a big consideration, I can fit 2 T48s(24") in my truck for my regular gigs and I can rent a trailer for my largest gigs, that I get once every 2 months. The driver cost, versus the bp102, is a con on my white board.
SoundInMotionDJ wrote:
Dusneed wrote:Should I be considering anything else in regards to the Titans? I know power should be considered, but I am also new to that. I have to deprogram the wattage thing.
It would take twice as many T39's to keep up with a T48 3015 loaded. And the T48 will get you down to 30-ish Hz in a pile.
If you need the slim version ~14" wide, I would look at the BP102 woofer. If you can handle 20-24" wide, the 3012LF will be awesome in a T39.
But, the T48 is a big box. The T39S weights 50 pounds, and is an easy one handed carry, if you put a strap handle on the back. Here is a side by side, T39@14" and a T48@24.5"...I built both, the T48 lives with a friend of mine.
--Stan Graves
The T48 does look so much larger, but pack space isn't my biggest concern. I like how you can carry the T39 with one hand although.
You're the reason the T39Slim is still a viable alternative to me because you are in the same business that I am in and they work well for you, from what I have read. I am under the assumption, that I can attain a more even sound by spacing out smaller stacks in a larger room instead of having 1 larger stack center clustered or corner-loaded. Also, that I don't have to push the smaller stacks as hard a larger stack because the relative distance from separated stacks will be lower (as long as I obey spacing rules). Am I correct in that assumption?
Sydney wrote:I didn't want to cut cardboard; so I pushed pixels instead to get a Q&D "general" idea of what a T48 skinny would look like; comparatively speaking
( until someone takes a pic. of the real thing )
Oh my, another alternative
. What is the upside of a T48Slim? I haven't read anything about them on these forums yet, but I assume they rock anyway.
BTW that's a hell of an editing job on that pictures. It looks so real. What program did you use to do that? If I may ask.
Sydney wrote:Duane:
RE: Cable
I couldn't find any specs on that ebay wire, so I would pass on it.
Cables have code identification:
"SPT Cord- Fixture or Zip Cord, 2 or 3 wire stranded. Designated by gauge and number of wires e.g. "18-3" is 18 gauge, 3 wire.
S Cord- Two or more stranded conductors with a serving of cotton between the copper and the insulation. Jute or other "fillers" are twisted together with the conductors to make a round assembly. Outer jacket of High quality rubber.
SJ Cord- Same as S cord with lighter jacket.
SV Cord- Same as SJ Cord with even lighter jacket
ST, SJT & SVT- Same as S, SJ, & SV except with outer jacket of thermo plastic materials
SO and SJO Cord- Same as S and SJ except with oil resistant jacket of neoprene or similar material
SC Cord- National Electrical Code designation for Entertainment Industry and Stage Lighting Cable; rated 600 volts extra hard usage.
SCE Cord- Same as SC, with PVC jacket
SCT Cord- Same as SC, with TPE based jacket
W Cord- Rated 2000 volts extra hard usage' replaced welding cable as an acceptable stage cable until type SC was developed.
I have used Carol SJ - PE sells it inexpensively
Also check Markertek
Syd
I just learned a lot from that post, but I am not completely sure I "get" it all. I am suffering from information overload at this point. The Carol SJ from PE is very reasonable, the possibilities are endless. 12 Gauge is good for runs up to 50'. or do I go with a lower gauge?
jcmbowman wrote:It seems like a lot of good advice has been spread around already. Hopefully I can add to the pile.
First - a little clarification. What styles of music do you play? How bass-heavy your program material is will go a long way towards determining which sub is appropriate for your needs.
I quite literally play everything, from Bhangra to DnB and everything in between, but my core is Top40/Hip-hop, oldies, etc etc. I also am I part of a band now (Yes, the DJ gets all of the chicks
). I have performed with the guys about 6 times so far with my Eons on sticks, but they have been small-ish gigs. I do it for fun, but I think we can do a whole lot better.
jcmbowman wrote:
Now, since you're already in business and making money at this, something you might want to consider is doing this one step at a time. Unless you're planning on ponying up the extra money and having a licensed builder do all the construction for you, building speakers does take a fair chunk of time. If you're in school, plus doing gigs, plus trying to have a life, well, it might take longer in the garage than you think to get 6 or 8 speakers done. My suggestions is to do what you're doing now - plan out the end goal system that you want, and then look at what you have now, and figure out what the next thing you can add or replace in your current setup that will give you the biggest benefit. For instance - it sounds like you rent out the double 18" subs fairly regularly, but you already have tops that are adequate (for now). Based on that my next thing would be to build subs. With the money you save not having to rent subs you can then turn around and finance the next component.
I planned on doing this in about 4 or so steps over 1.5-2 years because we have about that many substantial breaks in that time frame. beside that I want my gigs to pay for the system, even though I could lay out that investment from the outset. I estimated that it would take roughly 10k for the original system, but I haven't crunched the numbers for the alternatives yet, so i'll use the 10k as a baseline for now. I think it's fiscally responsible for me to invest 2k-2.5k at time because I can make that back in the following semester.
I agree, I want to start with my bottom end and build my way up. I have a little wood work under my belt, but I'm not anymore experienced than any other novice, so the "easier" build is a great starting point. I follow directions very well and I think the plans are very well written. I get that from the 10 or so times that I have read them.
The rental fees add up, even though I have become close to the sound company that lets me rent their cabs. They give me a lot of leeway, like 2for1, extended deadlines, etc etc, but the bill gets crazy at times, so I am trying to breakaway from them and take advantage of an untapped market, IMHO. For example, I did a fraternity probate this past Sunday and I had to play music, MC, and provide reinforcement to pledges stepping for the crowd. There was about 600 people packed into the quad and they were an excited bunch. I used all 4 of my Eons(spaced out of course), (4) dual 18" cabs, my SRM350(so the pledges can hear themselves), etc etc. My point is that the rental took 1/3 of my earnings. On a side note another DJ did a different probate on the same yard (350 people showed) with just a pair of EONs, needless to say, I made him and the frat that didn't want to pay my fee look bad.
Here are a few pics:
I don't know if you can see how thick the crowd is, but they brought out a huge crowd compared to other frats. I borrowed a projector and had a live feed playing on the building that they were in front of. That allowed the rest of the crowd to see their performance.
jcmbowman wrote:
As far as amplifiers go, I'm going to throw in my vote for the Crown XTi line. With the built-in DSP you sidestep the need for a dedicated speaker processor like the dbx Driveracks or the Behringer DCX/DEQ combo. They're also lightweight, and they are extremely efficient. One of the considerations that often gets overlooked when people plan out larger sound systems is the power requirements. When you're doing shows for under 200 people, power is as easy as making sure you're not plugged into the same circuit as a microwave or something else that's going to pop a breaker in the middle of a gig. When you're at the scale where you're running 5 or 6 amplifiers, plus processing, plus lights, plus DJ gear... at that point you need multiple clean 20-amp circuits, which sometimes means bringing a distro of your own and tapping into the mains. Going with the Crown XTi ( or iTech if you can afford it) or QSC PLX, or any other new, lightweight digital amplifier helps save you from having to be quite so concerned about power. Especially when you couple them with the super-efficient nature of the designs at this site.
The Crown XTI sounds enticing, but I am reluctant because I have bad experiences with all-in-one type of equipment. I would much rather it separated, but I am open to it. I was thinking when I do get the amps that I would case them 2 per rack, so I can just take 2 and processing for my smaller gigs, but take all 6 for my largest gigs.
Have you had any experience with the amps that you recommend?
I have 2 EP2500 that I bought out of haste, but they haven't failed me yet. I have read about their quality, but they serve me well. I just want something that will do the job correctly and work when I need them to.
I honestly have considered the power requirement, but my expertise lies in bean counting. I just don't know enough about it to really explore it. I have seen a distro before, but I am not exactly sure of what it does. I guess it takes power from more than 1 source and then distributes it, but that's a guess like I said. I rarely use lighting, but I have them for prom season. I have had breakers trip on me before, so I bought extra orange power cords that can reach outlets that aren't on the same circuits. It's ugly, but I make it work with tons of gaffers tape.
jcmbowman wrote:
As far as speakers, definitely consider the DR200s or DR250s. Bring 2 for small house parties, bring 8 for 1000-person warehouse gigs, just make sure you bring enough of the right subs to complement them. Unless the smallest gigs you plan on doing are 200-300 people, the DR280 is overkill. Read (or re-read) the sticky post on which DR to build:
http://billfitzmaurice.net/phpBB3/viewt ... f=2&t=1298
Lastly, as far as renting goes, it sounds like you rent out when you're too busy to do gigs yourself. Instead of getting in the habit of renting your stuff out (which leads to all kinds of 'bad things') try to see if you can bring on an apprentice/assistant/partner. If there's a guy you trust that you rent to fairly regularly, work out an arrangement where he works with you to really learn how to run, and how to properly treat, your gear, and then you'll hopefully have somebody to fill in for you on the gigs you otherwise would have to turn down. In the long run, it's much better for business. It's kind of the situation I have here with one of my friends/competitors. I do more of the electronic/DJ sound gigs, he does more rock/band gigs. He rents my subs when he needs more low end, I rent his tops when I need a bigger system. There are a lot of ways to establish that kind of a relationship, but basically, I'm saying that I'd steer clear of doing strictly rental - ie cash for gear for a specified amount of time. And as someone else pointed out before, if you do rent out, never, EVER rent out gear that you will need for a gig without giving yourself enough lead time to fix any damage that may occur during the rental.
Just my $.02 - do what you will with it.
You nailed it on the head with my rental situation. I always get gigs that pop up on me when I'm busy with work/school/othe gigs. It started as me renting out my turntables and mixer to an associate. Then it blossomed into me renting out my PA to my school for meetings/speeches, renting to a school band (now that I am a part of), and to other DJs who I have come in contact with that don't carry their PA to school or have a PA to begin with.
Only if I could be in 2 places at once. I would make a killing. I really need to explore my network of relationships for someone who is competent and reliable to do what I do with out me watching over them.
Thanks again guys,
Duane
How do you stay awake? Lot's of Red Bull?
