Titan 48's first event

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DJPhatman
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Re: Titan 48's first event

#16 Post by DJPhatman »

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote:Most fly hardware is external of the box, and does not rely on the box to bear any weight other than its own. In any event flying must be done only with approved hardware, inspected by a certified authority, and of course with the appropriate insurance coverage in place. In other words if you have to ask how to do it you probably should not be considering it.
+1,000,000
byacey wrote:The stage is 60 feet wide...
I'm not saying you had bad sound, and I'm sorry if I sound like an a$$ for typing this, but the stage is maybe 40' wide, definitely not 60' wide. The SUV with trailer on the left is between 35' & 45' long, and is as wide as the stage. The white tent to the right of the stage is approximately 10' wide, and looks like 4 would just fit the width of the stage. I suggest you measure to be sure. With that being said, try clustering the subs center stage, or under the center of the stage, if they will fit, lying on the ground with a V-plate. I know you wrote that the pair were "enough", but properly deploying them and V-plating will give you headroom, and that is always a good thing outdoors.

As for the SLS920s, lay the stack of 2 on their side, with the CD horns one directly above the other, and use blocks under the rear of each cab to "aim" them at the crowds' heads, and you should hear a marked improvement in sound quality. Laying them this way allows the cabs to "couple" and drastically reduces comb filtering, both of which will increase available, usable SPL. Both of my suggestions will only cost you a small amount of time, and can easily and quickly be reversed.
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Bruce Weldy
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Re: Titan 48's first event

#17 Post by Bruce Weldy »

DJPhatman wrote:
As for the SLS920s, lay the stack of 2 on their side, with the CD horns one directly above the other, and use blocks under the rear of each cab to "aim" them at the crowds' heads,
This will cut the horizontal dispersion from 80 degrees to 50. I think I'd rather deal with the comb-filtering than lose the coverage.

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DJPhatman
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Re: Titan 48's first event

#18 Post by DJPhatman »

Bruce Weldy wrote:This will cut the horizontal dispersion from 80 degrees to 50. I think I'd rather deal with the comb-filtering than lose the coverage.
-1 The spec sheet claims a 60 x 50 horn. Splaying them as the OP does not increase the horizontal coverage, cross-firing them would. Laying them on their sides and coupling them will point more SPL (sound) at the listeners, not above their heads. This does not take loss due to comb filtering into consideration.

Looking at the splayed configuration make you think that you have better coverage, but the laws of sound physics tell the real story. All it costs the OP is a few minutes of time during set-up, and if the OP doesn't like it, he is free to deploy his system as he sees fit.
I know money often seals the deal, but seriously, quality is an investment, not an expense... Grant Bunter
Accept the fact that airtight and well-braced are more important than pretty on the inside. Bill Fitzmaurice

SirNickity
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Re: Titan 48's first event

#19 Post by SirNickity »

We've been through this already when he first joined. He says the cabs are designed for this use and has no qualms with the quality of sound. We've already pitched the idea of alternate arrangements, and he's either tried them or he hasn't. Either way, anything more is badgering, even if it's well meaning. :-)

He seems the type of guy that is well aware of phase coherency issues. While it's best to have none, that isn't possible. He knows about 1/4 wavelengths and so on, so if that's where the subs stayed for the event, I would bet that's either because it was mandated that way by the customer, other options weren't feasible, or it achieved the desired result.

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Re: Titan 48's first event

#20 Post by Bruce Weldy »

DJPhatman wrote:
Bruce Weldy wrote:This will cut the horizontal dispersion from 80 degrees to 50. I think I'd rather deal with the comb-filtering than lose the coverage.
-1 The spec sheet claims a 60 x 50 horn.
From the Engineer's specs at the bottom of the sheet...

The nominal dispersion shall be 80ºH x 50º V

It's a weird spec sheet....the info at the top gives a bunch of +/- info to add to or take away from the 65x50.

The info at the bottom tells you what it's designed to do.

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Re: Titan 48's first event

#21 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

DJPhatman wrote: Looking at the splayed configuration make you think that you have better coverage, but the laws of sound physics tell the real story.
+1. Splayed cabs should never have been brought to market in the first place; this explains why they were, and why they should not have been:
http://www.gtaust.com/filter/05/07.shtml

For best results a pair of these should be vertically stacked, the upper cab upside down, creating a T-M-W-W-M-T alignment. For wider dispersion they can be rotated off-axis to each other, approximating (though not equaling) a spiral array.

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kekani
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Re: Titan 48's first event

#22 Post by kekani »

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote:
DJPhatman wrote: Looking at the splayed configuration make you think that you have better coverage, but the laws of sound physics tell the real story.
+1. Splayed cabs should never have been brought to market in the first place; this explains why they were, and why they should not have been:
http://www.gtaust.com/filter/05/07.shtml

For best results a pair of these should be vertically stacked, the upper cab upside down, creating a T-M-W-W-M-T alignment. For wider dispersion they can be rotated off-axis to each other, approximating (though not equaling) a spiral array.
For stability, could the sub be layed on the side if the tops had to be on top of them, vertically stacked of course (or should they be layed on the side regardless?
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gdougherty
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Re: Titan 48's first event

#23 Post by gdougherty »

DJPhatman wrote:With that being said, try clustering the subs center stage, or under the center of the stage, if they will fit, lying on the ground with a V-plate. I know you wrote that the pair were "enough", but properly deploying them and V-plating will give you headroom, and that is always a good thing outdoors.
Actually, I've found on wider stages (40+ ft) that the spaced subs can provide more consistent coverage and that's with 4 T48's in center physically delaying the outer pair to help reduce some of the narrowing of focus you can get with a wider line of subs. The problem I've had is that when you get out to the side of the stage the sub output is down enough to be pretty noticeable in comparison to the output of the closer tops. In the middle everything is quite balanced so that if you try to compensate for the drop on the sides the middle becomes overwhelmed by the subs.

Also, there's a reason bookshelf speakers are not recommended to be lain on their sides. As you walk across the horizontal plane you hear all the weird audible interrelations between the horn and mid-bass driver in the crossover region due to the shifting distance between the two sources. While splaying them as shown has its limitations and own problems, you provide consistent coverage to a wider portion of the audience and restrict the worst problems to a narrower region where the two speakers overlap. More than likely though, the two speakers should be splayed apart a little more for best results. That depends on horn pattern and is easily tested.

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Re: Titan 48's first event

#24 Post by gdougherty »

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote:
DJPhatman wrote: For best results a pair of these should be vertically stacked, the upper cab upside down, creating a T-M-W-W-M-T alignment. For wider dispersion they can be rotated off-axis to each other, approximating (though not equaling) a spiral array.
I've done that with a pair of Renkus Heinz cabinets to good effect. Got some weird looks, but the output was nice and consistent.

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