BillFitzmaurice.info

You're probably right about training. However, one can always push his boundaries.

Think about the "why" of what you're doing when you mix, and see if it changes your perspective.

I will say this... unless you have loads of processing on every channel (SAC or some other digital board) the paradigm is different... so you may not have the tool to fix whatever is causing the imbalance other than the channel fader. However... if you think about why it is what it is, perhaps you can improve it.

BrentEvans wrote:You're probably right about training. However, one can always push his boundaries.

For sure. I feel I "pushed my boundaries" quite a bit during my second year of mixing. I was simply saying that the fact that I mix the way I do is most likely a result of how I was trained, not that I some how believe that because I was trained a certain way that I must mix that way.

BrentEvans wrote:Think about the "why" of what you're doing when you mix, and see if it changes your perspective.

I believe I do think about the "why", but perhaps I don't dive deep enough. When I wonder why the vocals don't sound like they're properly blended, my answer tends to be "because one of them is too loud" as opposed to "one of them needs to be EQ'd differently". If the mix as a whole sounds muddy, I look to what instruments I can turn up or down as opposed to what frequencies. And so on. Again, I believe this is because I spent my first year of mixing using the channel faders to fix all of my problems. Now, if that wasn't working, I'd figure something else out, but it seems like I can fix most problems that I hear in a mix using channel faders.

BrentEvans wrote: I will say this... unless you have loads of processing on every channel (SAC or some other digital board) the paradigm is different... so you may not have the tool to fix whatever is causing the imbalance other than the channel fader. However... if you think about why it is what it is, perhaps you can improve it.

I do have a 4-band semi-parametric EQ on each channel, and up to 24 compressors and gates. So I've got access to plenty of processing.

Razor wrote:If the mix as a whole sounds muddy, I look to what instruments I can turn up or down as opposed to what frequencies. .

Muddy isn't a volume issue, it's an EQ issue. EQ is your friend....and it's the difference in a sound man and a man who runs sound.

I've found that getting instruments to have their own sonic space using EQ keeps you from riding faders all night. A good band who pays attention to dynamics along with a properly set board should leave you enjoying the show instead of twiddling knobs.

The best sounding shows I've done almost always require the least amount of work with faders.....as long as the EQ is right.

I can't tell you how many times I've been asked to "help make things sound better" after showing up at some friend's gig.....almost always the fix isn't volume, but rather a little change (ok, sometimes huge) in EQ - usually dumping some of the low mids on the kick (and sometimes vocals) and adding a little 2-4k on vocals. Doing little EQ changes can make a huge difference in cleaning up a muddy mix.

Just wanted to thank you guys because I applied some of what you said when I mixed last night and I think my work flow is improving.

Razor wrote:Just wanted to thank you guys because I applied some of what you said when I mixed last night and I think my work flow is improving.

"Grasshopper.....when you can snatch the pebble from my hand, you may leave."

Keep working that EQ....wonderful things will happen.

Bruce Weldy wrote:

Razor wrote:Just wanted to thank you guys because I applied some of what you said when I mixed last night and I think my work flow is improving.

"Grasshopper.....when you can snatch the pebble from my hand, you may leave."

Keep working that EQ....wonderful things will happen.

I will keep working the EQ, but that wasn't actually what I was referring to. I realized that I wasn't actually changing anything really when I was making all those super small fader adjustments (sometimes less than 1dB). So I'm not really doing that anymore. Should keep me from grabbing faders more often than necessary. Who knows, with the time I save I might be able to focus more on tasteful use of effects.

Razor wrote: I will keep working the EQ, but that wasn't actually what I was referring to.

At least that's a start.....

EQ really will make a difference in being able to hear every instrument and be able to be chest-thumping loud without hurting anyone's ears.

Bruce Weldy wrote:

Razor wrote: I will keep working the EQ, but that wasn't actually what I was referring to.

At least that's a start.....

EQ really will make a difference in being able to hear every instrument and be able to be chest-thumping loud without hurting anyone's ears.

Well, I've read quite a bit on EQ. Read the Yamaha book, articles at behindthemixer.com, talked to people on pro sound web, watched youtube videos about EQ, and of course done plenty of my own experimentation while mixing at my church for the past 3 years. One big help has been the RTA on the board I use.

I feel like I know a lot about EQ, there are just certain things I can't always figure out how to do with EQ.

Razor wrote: I feel like I know a lot about EQ, there are just certain things I can't always figure out how to do with EQ.

Such as?

BrentEvans wrote:

Razor wrote: I feel like I know a lot about EQ, there are just certain things I can't always figure out how to do with EQ.

Such as?

Using EQ to make a singer's amplified or recorded voice sound the same as their natural voice.

How to add clarity to a vocal without adding harshness, how to make a vocal sound "brighter" without adding too much sibilance, how to make a piano brighter or clearer without covering up the vocals, how to make the mix sound really full and powerful without just turning up the bass guitar and kick drum.

Razor wrote:

BrentEvans wrote:

Razor wrote: I feel like I know a lot about EQ, there are just certain things I can't always figure out how to do with EQ.

Such as?

Using EQ to make a singer's amplified or recorded voice sound the same as their natural voice.

How to add clarity to a vocal without adding harshness, how to make a vocal sound "brighter" without adding too much sibilance, how to make a piano brighter or clearer without covering up the vocals, how to make the mix sound really full and powerful without just turning up the bass guitar and kick drum.

As to the first....knobs can't fix that. Mic...mic preamp....environment....all you can do is make sure that it is pleasing, intelligible, and neither overpowering the mix or getting lost in it.

While we should all do everything we can to make the mix the best possible, sometimes you have to let go of the things you can't control, focus on the performance, and enjoy the fact that you've made 'em sound as good as you could.

As to the second issues.....EQ is a major part...but so is mic placement, the instruments themselves, the players' ability, etc. Ultimately though, EQ is the one thing that you have total control over....and that's the best way to find some definition in the mix.

Anyway, I'm sure it will get better - if only because you seem to be willing to doggedly pursue excellence.

Bruce Weldy wrote:Anyway, I'm sure it will get better - if only because you seem to be willing to doggedly pursue excellence.

It's become an obsession of mine. I suppose there are worse things to be obsessed with.

Razor wrote:

Bruce Weldy wrote:Anyway, I'm sure it will get better - if only because you seem to be willing to doggedly pursue excellence.

It's become an obsession of mine. I suppose there are worse things to be obsessed with.

Wait until you run BFM cabs, with the right tools, used properly. You may very well redefine "obsession".

Aaron

It's funny, the other night I really paid attention to just how often I moved a fader and now I think I really exaggerated in my earlier post here. On a typical night, the only time I adjust a fader during the actual worship service is for solos, song changes (e.g. moving from a fast paced guitar-driven song to a mellow piano-heavy song), and, of course, guitarists changing pedals. I could probably even setup a scene for each song and only have to manually adjust 2 or 3 things in one set. I think in the past I was "over-mixing" a bit.