Why I'm WILD about horns and Dupstep

[zefrenm]

Hmm interesting discussion so far lol. Thought i bring out the some more history videos to compare the Fox-trots song as oppose to the One-step 2/4 in the beginning of the post.

Fox-trots with there AABB construction and 4/4 tempo dictated by the dance of four-long steps taken in two beats followed by four quick on the beats steps required a slower tempo than the one step. Here is the "Father of the Blues" WC Handy and his All Black Orchestra Playing a cover in Sept. of the Livery Stable blues recorded in Feb by and all white Original Dixieland jazz-band. Handy was a professor of music at A&M College formed a band when it became vogue to record Black musicians in late in 1917.

My master of the Same Song by the First record Jazz band ODJB. The bass drums was masterfully set up by Harry S Snooy himself using one horn on the recorder with presumably DJ la Rooca(a weak cornet player by New Orleans standards at the time) close to the right, Henry ragas on piano just to the left of the horn, Larry shields 15 ft back on center, Eddie Edwards on trombone 25ft back to the right and Tony S'Barbaro center 40ft from the horn. I play the record at 74 rpms to bring the record into key and because Snooy himself played with rpms on his machine.

A groups that did their research recreating the ODJB sound and playing with modern mastering techniques. The Monkey is an homage to Tony S'Barbaro whose bass drums used to make the monkey dance like crazy.

in the 1930s Victor sponsored to bring the Guys out of retirement (even Harry s Snooy) and created historic photos and create publicity. But mainly was all flash and lacked what really would have happen in the studios. its' fun to see a close approximation of how it was set up. First big error is that the recorder would never share the same place as the players in the real studios and the one featured was the portable recorder.

[Sydney]

Somebody likes jazz
I like da ol' blues
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW1SRJrNZZw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRGl6Twebvc

[zefrenm]

Somebody likes jazz
I like da ol' blues
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW1SRJrNZZw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRGl6Twebvc

lol what you call the "ol' blues" was a recent invention of the rural south of the 20s and 30's, i prefer the military blues of the 19teens and ragtime jazz.

But in the early 19-teens the south went wild over Hawaiian Guitars from traveling shows and Victor records of Hawaiian slack key and lap guitars, Ti'weren't long before the rural south adapted the sound to their home grown music roots. Here is a southern Man playing an american song that's not played by a native Hawaiian. Sam Moore playing on a extinct 12 string guitar with probably four-6 resonant bass strings. And his partner playing a harp guitar reg guitar with 6 bass strings above the fret broad. recorded 1921

[Sydney]

a recent invention

I guess I'd be inclined to call it a permutation/descendant of roots music primarily from West and Central Africa; the connection can still be heard in the music of Ali Farka Toure.

[zefrenm]

a recent invention

I guess I'd be inclined to call it a permutation/descendant of roots music primarily from West and Central Africa; the connection can still be heard in the music of Ali Farka Toure.

Only if you take the lap style guitar out, here blues as it first appeared in popular music "The hesitation Blues" using the chords and, blues writing styled pioneered by WC Handy himself in 1912.

Liner notes
When this song was recorded Ragtime was still the King of popular music, but ragtimes complex harmonies and concrete structure was giving way to the next phase of popular music. The animal dance craze was starting to reach a fever pitch as aspiring composters were trying to discover the next sound. The Turkey trot, bunny hug, the Grizzly bear and the enduring Fox-trot offered people a lightly syncopated structure that was adept at improvisation and band arrangements. Blues songs were also starting to become popular as the younger Americans yearned for the once forbidden blues songs. This recording is one of those early Blues songs arranged in a One Step (go figure) and played by the Victor Military Band in 1916. I suppose if you combine the two styles and add a talented soloist you get the birth of jazz. Still this is an amazing record and the sound is half fast ragtime and a jaunty Blues song so please enjoy. This record brought victor much condemnation from moralist and religious institutions that victor almost vowed to never record blues again but it was so popular that money dictated what gets records not morals.

[zefrenm]

Tough claim there, sir. So let's hear where I went wrong then, eh? Always happy to learn something new.

My Sound bible

"Manual of analogue audio restoration techniques" by Peter Copeland available online in pdf free.


"Sound Recording: The Life Story of a Technology "
David L. Morton Jr. (Author)Publication Date: April 20, 2006 | ISBN-10: 0801883989 | ISBN-13: 978-0801883989 | Edition: 1

"Microphones - Methods Of Operation and Type Examples"
By Gerhart Bore and Stephan Peus PDF online.

[Sydney]

A related "Handy" anecdote:
"On a lonely night in 1903, W.C. Handy, the African American leader of a dance orchestra, got stuck waiting for a train in the hamlet of Tutwiler, Mississippi. With hours to kill and nowhere else to go, Handy fell asleep on a hard wooden bench at the empty depot. When he awoke, a ragged black man was sitting next to him, singing about "goin' where the Southern cross the Dog" and sliding a knife against the strings of a guitar. The musician repeated the line three times and answered with his instrument.

Intrigued, Handy asked what the line meant. It turned out that the tracks of the Yazoo & Mississippi Valley Railroad, which locals called the Yellow Dog, crossed the tracks of the Southern Railroad in the town of Moorehead, where the musician was headed, and he'd put it into a song.

It was, Handy later said, "the weirdest music I had ever heard."

That strange music was the blues, although few people knew it by that name. At the turn of the century, the blues was still slowly emerging from Texas, Louisiana, the Piedmont region, and the Mississippi Delta; its roots were in various forms of African American slave songs such as field hollers, work songs, spirituals, and country string ballads. Rural music that captured the suffering, anguish-and hopes-of 300 years of slavery and tenant farming, the blues was typically played by roaming solo musicians on acoustic guitar, piano, or harmonica at weekend parties, picnics, and juke joints. Their audience was primarily made up of agricultural laborers, who danced to the propulsive rhythms, moans, and slide guitar."
From the essay "What is the Blues?"

[zefrenm]

slide guitar."

the fret-less lap guitar was copied in america after the 1912 Panama Pacific Exhibition where Hawaiian troupes used custom laps. More likely it would have been a Banjo. in all regards the blues if played on a regular guitar which you speak off was so common in those days that no one sought to record the players and their life's were so full of hardships that many great players never lived long enough to get recorded. Much like early piano players, ever wonder why their never any piano solo recordings? The boogie woogie of Pine top Smith in 1928 was ended short by a knife fight after two records.

I don't have an issue with your augment except that lap style blues playing didn't exist as far back as you say it has. 1920 is as far back as i would say.

[Sydney]

I don't have an issue with your augment except that lap style blues playing didn't exist as far back as you say it has.

Chil-Lax Bro, and don't get your crupper twisted - It's all good
That account was related by W.C himself - So it wasn't - "I say"
And it was a guitar tuned to an open chord ( bottleneck style ) not a Hawaiian lap steel.
FWIW: I drew from THE BLUES™ NATIONAL EDUCATIONAL OUTREACH CAMPAIGN background material to the documentation project conducted by Executive Producer Martin Scorsese, and seven directors: "Martin Scorsese presents The Blues - A Musical Journey (2003)

[zefrenm]

And it was a guitar tuned to an open chord ( bottleneck style ) not a Hawaiian lap steel.

Bottle Style guitar was an attempt to replicated the Hawaiiian lap style that existed before it was adopted into blues playing.

[Sydney]

Perhaps a mood stabilizer would ease the frustration...

[zefrenm]

And it was a guitar tuned to an open chord ( bottleneck style ) not a Hawaiian lap steel.

Bottle Style guitar was an attempt to replicated the Hawaiiian lap style that existed before it was adopted into blues playing. and using a knife as a guitar pick or as a bow has always been an effect used since steel strings come out in the late 1890

[zefrenm]

Perhaps a mood stabilizer would ease the frustration...

I'll just dance it out 1927 style

As the Advocate of the Melbourne Shuffle, great for those stressful "I've been talking to an Audiophile whose amplifier cost more than a semester in Collage.

[guitarkeys.com]

Hey, not trying to be rude. Just one of those type it on the way out the door comments that apparently came off harshly.... sorry.

Compressors reduce dynamics. That is what they do.

I think your comments are more inline with equalization and mixing. I understand what you are saying and believe I know the point you are trying to make, however I think your angle is a little off.

Jamie

[BassMe]