BillFitzmaurice.info

I have the feeling that were Margaret Thatcher the PM this would not have gone on for this long or been nearly as severe. Thugs only engage in thuggery when they're not faced with immediate overwhelming force. Peaceful protest is one thing, but when you cross the line to rioting there's nothing better than a swift truncheon to the head to effect needed attitude adjustment.

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote:I have the feeling that were Margaret Thatcher the PM this would not have gone on for this long or been nearly as severe. Thugs only engage in thuggery when they're not faced with immediate overwhelming force. Peaceful protest is one thing, but when you cross the line to rioting there's nothing better than a swift truncheon to the head to effect needed attitude adjustment.

+1 If they'd rolled in the tanks and enforced a curfew with automatic weapons this would be long stopped.

Dan30 wrote:Finally England is gaining interest in baseball!

That cracked me up. I heard last night they were considering using rubber/plastic bullets to disperse the crowds. I didn't hear if it was the military called in or the police... but if it's the police, that makes me

As far as guns and crime, there is a city here, near Atlanta, that requires all adults to own a gun (some silly old law from the... '80s). Gun ownership in Kennesaw, GA is pretty high, of course. But just Google it, you'll see what the effect is when people know everyone else is SUPPOSED to have a gun.

netwerks wrote:
+1 If they'd rolled in the tanks and enforced a curfew with automatic weapons this would be long stopped.

Overkill, and it would only result in escalation. Troops armed with billy clubs in numbers larger than those of the rioters is all that's required, and faced with same the rioters would go back into the pubs and get on with what passes for their lives.

I would think that would end up with a lot of police/riot control folks getting beat I'd be in for some tear gas and bean bag loaded shotties.

I'd be for better education.

I think it was Old Man Daley former mayor of Chicago in the 60's who during the riots of the late 60's gave a public order to the Police to shoot looters on site! Yep, that is when stopped in Chicago even though it carried on for a while in other cities.

Remember folks these criminals are depriving innocents of their life and liberty (And what you choose to trade your's for) make a real stand!!!

UROK wrote:I'd be for better education.

I don't understand this one. The UK isn't far behind the US in world rankings... and when it comes to Universities, Cambridge, Oxford, and Imperial are almost always in the top 10. When it comes to the top countries in the world, education rankings in math, science, and reading aren't far off from each other. In other words, #15 isn't that far off from #1. It's not like being 10 places behind Japan means your country is completely illiterate. It's like the top runners in the world, where the winning time is milliseconds better. However, the guys placing 6-10 are still faster than the majority of people out there.

Many people knock the US education system - which I do believe is lacking in quite a few subjects in the government K-12 program - but they always seem to forget we have the bulk of the top universities in the world. Funny thing is, most of the top institutions are *gasp* private... but that's another discussion

bzb wrote:

UROK wrote:I'd be for better education.

I don't understand this one. The UK isn't far behind the US in world rankings... and when it comes to Universities, Cambridge, Oxford, and Imperial are almost always in the top 10. When it comes to the top countries in the world, education rankings in math, science, and reading aren't far off from each other. In other words, #15 isn't that far off from #1. It's not like being 10 places behind Japan means your country is completely illiterate. It's like the top runners in the world, where the winning time is milliseconds better. However, the guys placing 6-10 are still faster than the majority of people out there.

Many people knock the US education system - which I do believe is lacking in quite a few subjects in the government K-12 program - but they always seem to forget we have the bulk of the top universities in the world. Funny thing is, most of the top institutions are *gasp* private... but that's another discussion

Read my first post in this thread. It's the class system, stupid! (To paraphrase the famous quote about the US economy.)

And consider 5-6% of UK schoolgoers attend private schools or what are called public schools yet privately educated applicants make up over 50% of students at Oxbridge and the other best universities.

The bottom line is that when people are in a desperate situation they resort to desperate measures. It does not matter whether a baseball bat or a gun is available, they will act out. The problem is the people not the weapon of choice or availability. As the world wide economy falls further into the toilet these types of things will only escalate. Things are not good here in the US right now and we are very capable of the same type of behavior when the government cuts back on support (it should have never got so crazy with free money in the first place) and as unemployment increases. As things get worse I am glad to be licensed to carry. You think that a pack of Titans hit hard, try my 45 on for size If a group of thugs break into my home looking I can and will protect my family.

UROK wrote:Read my first post in this thread. It's the class system, stupid! (To paraphrase the famous quote about the US economy.)

And consider 5-6% of UK schoolgoers attend private schools or what are called public schools yet privately educated applicants make up over 50% of students at Oxbridge and the other best universities.

As is expected - those who attend private primary schools would naturally have more motivation. There are consequences for jacking around in a private school - you get plain kicked out. Parents who place their children in private schools typically take a more active approach to their children, as well. It's not a money thing... I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination... but I'm planning on putting my kids in private school, even if it means a religion-based one.

Unfortunately, I don't know there's any realistic solution for changing the system for the poorer neighborhoods. I can't claim to understand the UK's issues, but here it's a combination of teacher's unions, corrupt government, and the culture of the poor. It'd require a monumental revolution of thought, voting, and attitudes to change the poorest of neighborhoods. Well, "poor" by US standards, anyway.

From my experience, even a mediocre public high school can produce exceptional students. Quite a few of my peers went to Georgia Tech, and I know a handful of folks who went to Ivy Leagues... but then again, I was in those college prep courses, so naturally I'd know more.

However, I don't think it matters where you go or how you're educated. A motivated student is all it really takes. I have many coworkers who grew up in terrible conditions, but they were motivated to get out of that culture, and are productive, well educated people now.

Secondarily, I think it's the parents. If there wasn't so much pressure from my Asian mother, I doubt I'd have gone to GT. I was a total underachiever. My ability to absorb and retain information and produce it under pressure during tests is the only thing that saved me from failing everything The other side of that coin is the pressure from the parents sometimes drives kids away from it. So then, it still comes down to the attitude of the individual student.

Have you ever seen what Bill Gates is doing with his private schools here in the US? Very interesting stuff, and he's been producing extraordinary results with students from poor districts. I particularly love the project-based schooling he's doing in San Diego - but I realize that's not realistic for all schools.

bzb wrote:I can't claim to understand the UK's issues, but here it's a combination of teacher's unions, corrupt government, and the culture of the poor. It'd require a monumental revolution of thought, voting, and attitudes to change the poorest of neighborhoods. Well, "poor" by US standards, anyway.

2 out of 3 I'm calling . The 'culture of the poor' can be described as lack of food and supervision due to little money and both parents spending huge chunks of time trying to make a living but barely succeeding. Trade unions being a primary cause of school problems is laughable. The ratio of pay that teachers receive with the 'heavy handed' unions to education acquired is well below what they would be eligible for in other fields with the same level of education. On top of that I know too many teachers that are putting their own money into classroom materials that the district is unable to provide. Funding and corrupt government are the real culprits in these United States, IMO.

Hopefully tonight will be quiet although the trouble seems to be heading north It made me exceptionally proud to see the clean up today, I've got to say!

Bruce Weldy wrote:It's exactly because of guns that this doesn't happen in the US.....especially in concealed-carry states. You never know who might be packing.

Los Angeles, 1992

cheapbasslovin wrote:2 out of 3 I'm calling . The 'culture of the poor' can be described as lack of food and supervision due to little money and both parents spending huge chunks of time trying to make a living but barely succeeding. Trade unions being a primary cause of school problems is laughable. The ratio of pay that teachers receive with the 'heavy handed' unions to education acquired is well below what they would be eligible for in other fields with the same level of education. On top of that I know too many teachers that are putting their own money into classroom materials that the district is unable to provide. Funding and corrupt government are the real culprits in these United States, IMO.

Culture of the poor in the US is:
- disregarding education as an important responsibility. More emphasis on sports, pop music, or lottery winnings as a "way out".
- disregarding attention to the kids as a parent. "That's the teacher's job."
- a culture of violence and disrespect.

Due to little money is a fallacy. A "poor" family in the United States has more expendable income than a family making $60k a year due to the welfare state.

Due to little food, laughable. Seriously, show me where is the famine in the most obese country in the world?

Due to both parents... er, what?

As far as trade unions go: competition. If you don't understand what competition would do to enhance our school system, then you're exactly the undereducated problem. The reason our universities are the top in the world (and yet our K-12 is NOT) is because of competition. Competition for students, competition for curriculum, and competition for university staff. Trade unions absolutely stifle any semblance of competition.

Know any home schooled kids? Ask the parents how tough of a time they have with the government. Know of any local charter schools? Ask the founders what kind of hoops they had to jump through to get it started... and what issues they face now.

And finally, lack of funding: that is such an ignorant statement, and it's so pervasive in our country. That thinking absolutely needs to be stopped, and you need to educate yourself on the entire issue. In the US, we spend the most per child on education every year (and that EXCLUDES private education), and the schools get worse every year. Keep throwing money at the system that squanders it... great solution.

I know quite a few teachers myself. Yes, they spend money in their classrooms... but in my area, the parents are involved and donate a lot of time, money, and supplies to their schools. We make it a priority in our community, and that's why our high school here is ranked #3 in the state. The teachers love what they're doing. They're not in it for the money. And if they got into for the money - you really need to question them teaching anything to your child, if they couldn't figure out that they wouldn't become rich from teaching.