BillFitzmaurice.info

Thanks for your reply Drey!

Yeah, thats how I feel to, like that combo should give very good value, and alot cheaper than an XTi 4000. Even more so when we want to get one more amp.

What do you think about the DSP in the XTi? is it enough, or will I be wanting for more controll soon?

Any other good amps to recommend in the pricerange under XTi and over the Behringer?

Of course it would be very nice with lighter amps, but its not very important, the speakers are still heavier:P

How about the limiters in the Driverack PA+? Are they good enough to make sure we dont blow our drivers?

new xti suppossedly has better limiters

Sine143, thats nice:)

How about the filters on the XTi? "only" 24db/oct, is that good enough? Looks like most here recommend 48db/oct? Would I need an EQ before an XTi? When would I need more processing power?

Cause right now, it feels hard to justify the pricedifference. Looks to me like the Behringer combo gives me a bit more functionality, and perhaps better limiters? Compared to the XTi. Here in Europe atleast, it looks like the XTi 4000 is around 2.5 times more expensive than the EP 4000. And the Driverack PA+ is more than twice the price of the DCX 2496, for less functionality, except for the EQ side.

What I´m trying to figure out is, is the good stuff really that much better?

Robin_Larsson wrote:Any other good amps to recommend in the pricerange under XTi and over the Behringer?

Peavey IPR, Crown Drivecore. Both affordable, stupid light, yet decent amps.

The XTi limiter is somewhat limited (pun intended): it only does -3dB, -6dB and -12dB. Still a great package, use a computer to set up a number of presets for your cabs (upto 20 can be loaded into an XTi amp).

I'm very happy with the DEQ2496, it does not do crossovers like the DCX, but it does have a very sweet RTA auto-EQ function which I have found to be very effective with my cabs. So far I have not been able to match the sound quality of what the DEQ finds with any other means of manual EQ setting. I can get close if I try (real hard), but cannot match it.

Robin_Larsson wrote:How about the filters on the XTi? "only" 24db/oct, is that good enough? Looks like most here recommend 48db/oct? Would I need an EQ before an XTi? When would I need more processing power?

Cause right now, it feels hard to justify the pricedifference. Looks to me like the Behringer combo gives me a bit more functionality, and perhaps better limiters? Compared to the XTi. Here in Europe atleast, it looks like the XTi 4000 is around 2.5 times more expensive than the EP 4000. And the Driverack PA+ is more than twice the price of the DCX 2496, for less functionality, except for the EQ side.

What I´m trying to figure out is, is the good stuff really that much better?

If you're talking about the DCX remember that it is a crossover and has the same basic limited EQ that the XTi has. It is a crossover with (IIRC) 6 parametric EQ's per output, this isn't enough to perform room or speaker correction. I use the DEQ for equalization.

I would purchase the DEQ & DCX for EQ/Crossover/Limiter and then connect to an amp. I would consider an amp with DSP as most of them can be controlled from software and can be used by themselves in a pinch.

jjohnson wrote: If you're talking about the DCX remember that it is a crossover and has the same basic limited EQ that the XTi has. It is a crossover with (IIRC) 6 parametric EQ's per output, this isn't enough to perform room or speaker correction. I use the DEQ for equalization. ch

The 6 parametric bands of the DCX are usually enough to get a speaker system relatively flat, especially if it's biamped. It just takes a little more work outside with an RTA. A good practice is to set this once, then use another EQ (the DEQ, for instance) to make any corrections for a room that you might want.

The DEQ is a great box though... you get parametric/FBQ for feedback control and the 31 band for shaping. Another good piece from Behringer is the FBQ2496 - 20 parametric filters per channel, and what you don't use can become feedback destroyers It's also much less expensive than the DEQ, but has no limiter, graphic EQ, or AutoEQ, and the interface is not as intuitive. FOr the price, though...

So, Brent, your saying that I could get by for a while with just the DCX, or the XTi´s EQ, but would want an external EQ rather soon?

Is the XTi 2000 really powerful enough to drive the T48, or the DR 280 to their max? Doesnt looks like it to me? Maybe enough anyway?
The same with the Ep 4000, looks like people does it, but are they getting the max out of their speakers? And to get close, your gonna have to run the EP pretty hard? I´ve read all I can find about the EP 4000, and it does seems like its a rather good amp, for the money, but it doesnt seem to deliver the 950W rms in 4 ohm that it states? even more so driving subs? 500W rms, is what the T48 wants right? maxed out.

QSC, GX series, you can trust their ratings right? Like 2x1000W in 4 ohm for the GX7, that must be rms? Still looks a bit underpowered for 2 T48s per channel? Or is it close enough?

If dont wanna go with the Behringer amps, the XTi sure does look good, the GX7 is not much cheaper, and two of those and a Driverack PA+ is more expensive than two XTi 4000, and give a bit less power.
Or would a GX7 + DCX 2496 be good match, or even maybe better than the XTi?

What would you guys choose?

btw, if I dont wanna go Behringer amps, is there really any point in looking at say Alto or Samson amps? They+re mer expensive, but not much cheaper than QSC or Crown.

Okey, got some more prices, and really leaning towards the XTi series now.


Alt 1. 1pc XTi 4000, running mono, 2 subs one side, 2 tops the other.

Alt 2. 1pc XTi 1000, bridged into the 2 subs, 1 XTi 2000 running the tops in stereo.

Alt 1 would cost me 8, Alt 2 cost 11. Dont wanna give the exact prices, but those are the ratios, and the prices are good:)

Later, when I wanna run 4 T48s, and perhaps 4 DR 280 in stereo

Alt 1.1 2 XTi 4000, cost: 16 Plenty of headroom, and maybe even possible to run 6 cabs on each?

Alt 2.2 2 XTi 1000 for the subs, and still 1 2000, cost: 16. not as much headroom, and a bit underpowered for 4 tops?

What say you?

And I´ll most likely add an EQ or even a DSP(if theres really any point?) later on. Any good EQ to recommend, that really does justice to the above setup?

Alt 1.1 for me please. 2 xti 4000 would be nice.

Oh and yeah you could run 6 of each if you had to.

I've got the ep4000 running 4 t48 at the moment and it's pretty good. I do have to run it pretty hard but over here the xti are waaaay more pricey than the ep4000. Plus I already have the processor.

yeah, I thougt so:) It does feel like the best way to go. Question if we can afford 2 XTi 4000 right now, I´ll discuss it with my partner in the weekend.

Dave, you run 4 T48s with some other amp sometimes also? How close to the max of the T48s are you able to get? It has worked for you for some time now? You run the Driverack PA+ right?

As you say, the EP 4000 are alot cheaper "here" Thomann that is. An EP 4000 and a DCX 2496 would only cost around 5, and with 2 EP 4000 I still only up to 8 in cost, and would then be able to drive more and in stereo, compared to one XTi 4000 for the same money:P

Btw, The XTi should run smooth even on a bad powersupply right? Say a cheap gasoline generator or so? Thanks to the multi voltage SMPS I mean? Much better than the behringer kit?

Oops, forgot you weren't 'over there'.

Yeah I've run 4 t48 from various amps.
Peavey 2600
yamaha p7000
ep4000

I have two rigs, one with p7000 subs and p5000 tops + driverackPA
other rig is (at the moment) peavey 2600 on tops and ep4000 on subs + DEQ/DCXcombo

I'm saving up for an xti6000. then I can run 4 tops 4 subs on the one amp. Hehe.

I ve run my yamaha rig from a generator at one event for a whole weekend with no problems apart from running out of diesel. which I don't recommend.
that's the only experience I've had with generators.

I ran a pair of EP2500s for a few years and they were pretty good amps. They did run a bit hot, though. My understanding is that the EP4000 is very similar, with the main difference being that it has a better power supply. I'd say the Behringers are probably the best CHEAP amps these days, but as with anything, if you can afford better, go for it.

I've not noticed the EP4000 getting hot, I'll check it during tonights gig.

Robin_Larsson wrote: but it doesnt seem to deliver the 950W rms in 4 ohm that it states?(EP4000)

fyi I've gotten >90v@4ohm/>2000watts per channel from each unit I've measured. Don't run hotter than anything else, maybe less. Especially if you pull the exhaust filter.