Calling Driverack 260 Users...

[biodad]

greetings

I ordered the carvin XD88 ( X drive as it's called ) which is $700 + shipping. It's a "driverack" type processor. I will get it mid week. It has 8 ins & 8 outs. EACH input has a 30 band graphic and EACH output has 4 band parametric with other bells & whistles. I have a 10 day period to like it or send it back.
Most all of the carvin stuff i bought has been very reliable. In the past, some qsc, crown and dbx products had problems. Hard to say what to trust but my new dbx comp / limiter has a channel that only puts out 50% volume and is basically worthless now. And dbx is / use to be quality budget priced stuff. Any company can get 2000 resistors shipped and one is bad here & there i guess?
I need a good rta mike. A carvin rep told me not to buy their best condenser as it wouldnt be good for rta use. Honest sales rep. Any suggestions before i read every post on every sight?
Hope this XD88 hangs in there cause feature wise it smokes anything probably under $2000.
We are a piano duo and each voice gets its own input and eq before i send vocals to the mixer. Tons of control.

[DJPhatman]

The Behringer ECM8000 mic rates as good or better than higher priced mics. They can be had online for under US$40 if you are patient.

[bgavin]

I spent Sunday researching the components of the various LMS processors.
Very surprising... the Behringer DCX2496 is using top of the line premium components.
There is no cost cutting at all in the ADC, DAC, DSP or OpAmps.
All the popular processors are using virtually the same parts.

The difference is in the presentation layer (interface) and quality of glue used to connect the components.
It would be an interesting study to find out where the Behringer units fail, and correct that condition in advance.

[BrentEvans]

It would be an interesting study to find out where the Behringer units fail, and correct that condition in advance.

A common issue seems to be components on the PCB grounding out on the case due to insufficient insulation. The fix is to add insulation under the pcb.

[WB]

I spent Sunday researching the components of the various LMS processors.
Very surprising... the Behringer DCX2496 is using top of the line premium components.
There is no cost cutting at all in the ADC, DAC, DSP or OpAmps.
All the popular processors are using virtually the same parts.

Interesting, nice to know.

It would be an interesting study to find out where the Behringer units fail, and correct that condition in advance.

A common issue seems to be components on the PCB grounding out on the case due to insufficient insulation. The fix is to add insulation under the pcb.

I did that fix to my first DEQ because it had a mild case of the famous frying bacon sound. I layered some electrical tape, and it worked.
When I opened my DCX recently (which is newer) I saw that issue has been resolved at the factory with insulation.

[BrentEvans]

When I opened my DCX recently (which is newer) I saw that issue has been resolved at the factory with insulation.

Nice to know that they actually listen and care about their products, for sure. I've installed DCX's in churches and never had a call back on them, then again they don't get moved around much (i.e. at all). I've got a DEQ spec'd for the first time in an upcoming job, eager to get my hand on and work with it. It's a very unique situation - installing sound in a church where they want little to no amplification. The main purpose of the system is recording, not the other way around (which is the norm, I suppose). Everything is being done with distant mics, suspended and recessed condensers, mainly, and a nice LDC on the pulpit. And, a lav. Since there will be some amplification (enough to make everyone have the volume level that the front row gets acoustically) I figured the feedback suppressor and delay would come in real handy for the distributed system.

Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled thread...

[bgavin]

The next steps up are the Sabine units.
Further digging reveals the Sabine is just a rebranded Xilica processor.

This clouds the issue as to who writes the firmware, and where to get the updates, etc.
One also wonders if Sabine modifies the firmware to suit their needs, etc.

Frankly, the whole murky mess is enough to put me off.
The DCX bacon sound was declared 'repaired' a number of years ago.
For $250 it is very worth taking a gamble.

If one could find a weak point and correct it, that might be just the ticket for the small operator.

[David Carter]

Well, given all this discussion about component quality, etc., and the fact that I liked the user interface better on my DCX than the one on my DriveRack 260, is there any reason I shouldn't sell the 260 and buy a new DCX/DEQ combo to replace it? At NSL prices, I should be able to get both with the income from selling the 260. I've not had any problems with the 260. It's solid as far as I can tell, but I just find the DCX interface to be more intuitive (probably because I had it first and had gotten used to it). Don't know about the DEQ as I've never owned one.

Does this logic make sense? Or am I crazy to be think of letting go of a solid performer that I got a good deal on?

[bgavin]

There is no good answer to this one.
At the NSL prices, the DCX is certainly worth a gamble.

Considering the ADC, DAC, DSP and opamps are either identical or at similar spec, the difference is the interface and quality of construction.
Q: do you really have to do much front panel fiddling during a show?

I've read conflicting reports about upgrading the components in the DCX and the prices for these mods are very high.
Some view this as a scam, others swear there is an audible improvement.
This is probably splitting hairs, same as the Digital vs. Tape argument.

The best price I've found on a Sabine 4x8 is about $1000. This is a long way up from the DCX at NSL.
For the weekend warrior, it is hard to rationalize the sound being 4x better, at 4x the price.

On the down side, rebooting a stalled digital LMS in mid-show is a Sphincter 10 moment.
My Virtual DJ software locked once during a performance...
Those 15 seconds of silent dead air will last a lifetime for you and the audience.
The typical beer fest participant can't differentiate digital vs. analog, but he will certainly notice dead air.

For now, I will stay with analog (non-computerized) for my very modest signal processing.
Good subs and clear sounding tops add so much more noticeable quality to the sound.

[DJPhatman]

On the down side, rebooting a stalled digital LMS in mid-show is a Sphincter 10 moment.
My Virtual DJ software locked once during a performance...
Those 15 seconds of silent dead air will last a lifetime for you and the audience.
The typical beer fest participant can't differentiate digital vs. analog, but he will certainly notice dead air.

This is why I keep a CD player at the ready. When I was gigging, my main source of music was a custom built computer. But, I keep a CD cued up and ready to go at a seconds notice. This won't help if a piece of outboard equipment takes a poop while playing, but these are the chances you take. Use reliable equipment, take care of it, keep it as cool as possible, keep it clean on the inside, and it should serve you well for years. BTW, even analog equipment goes bad, eventually.

[WB]

I just find the DCX interface to be more intuitive (probably because I had it first and had gotten used to it). Don't know about the DEQ as I've never owned one.

DEQ = DCX for ease of use.

[bgavin]

Grounding and insulation problems are easy fixes.
Recapping with premium Rubycons or similar is affordable and relatively easy.
Modded board replacements are very expensive, and surface mount component replacement is difficult at best.

I've been researching PSW and find the DCX has a 5% failure rate in general installation.
The same research reinforces the complaint of chronic noise in the DR260 over several years.

I've never been a Behringer fan, but at NSL pricing, the DCX looks worthy of a gamble.
FWIW, I did buy a three-pack of Behringer SM58 clones at $19 each, and am completely happy with them.