Yesterday I stained a utility game cabinet and found out that Bondo doesn't take stain the same as baltic birch. The smooth-sanded plug is quite visible. Ditto for any PL that wasn't entirely removed by sanding.
What do the pros use to fill holes when stain is the final finish?
Technique for Stain and Bondo
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bgavin
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Technique for Stain and Bondo
My biggest worry is that when I'm dead and gone, my wife will sell my toys for what I said I paid for them.
A plug of the same type of wood, cut from the same grain if possible, ie: end grain or cross grain.
To make it really dissappear, use colored pencils to draw the grain pattern right through the plug. You can try the same thing on the bondo. A good set of colored pencils will have enough shades to match. Start with the base color of the wood. Color the whole plug, then draw in the grain pattern with other colors. A little practice will yield good results.
To make it really dissappear, use colored pencils to draw the grain pattern right through the plug. You can try the same thing on the bondo. A good set of colored pencils will have enough shades to match. Start with the base color of the wood. Color the whole plug, then draw in the grain pattern with other colors. A little practice will yield good results.
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Strapping Young Stu
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Re: Technique for Stain and Bondo
I would guess the pros dont leave any holes in the first place.bgavin wrote:Yesterday I stained a utility game cabinet and found out that Bondo doesn't take stain the same as baltic birch. The smooth-sanded plug is quite visible. Ditto for any PL that wasn't entirely removed by sanding.
What do the pros use to fill holes when stain is the final finish?
I know at speakerplans they recommend a two part car body filler for filling holes - this should probably take the paint better as well.
Stu
Re: Technique for Stain and Bondo
On the contrary. Sometimes a hole is the only way to do what needs doing. It could be a matter of patching a screw head or repairing a gouge. There isn't a woodfiller in the world that will match grain, so hand matching is required. Done properly it will trick the eye so that only very close scrutiny will reveal the patch.Strapping Young Stu wrote: I would guess the pros dont leave any holes in the first place.
Stu
If you know you're going to be staining the cabinet, a bit of particular attention to a few details in construction will be very beneficial...
* Be particular with your usage of PL. DO NOT put too little, but try not to over-do it by much. Try to keep the ooze-out to "a minimum" (but again, not too little). DO NOT wipe the PL that oozes out, as that will seal more of the wood in the corners. Sealed wood will not take stain. Instead, carefully and lightly remove the dried PL ooze with a wide wood chisel. Buy a "sanding sponge" and use it to sand more of the excess PL out of the corners. Remember to always sand with the direction of the wood grain. Even though this may be a bit difficult to do, do the best that you can, and do not allow temptation to let you sand against the grain.
* Instead of Bondo, use wood filler. It is sandable and stainable. DO NOT use Color Putty. Try to be sparing with the wood filler, and sand it down as much as you can.
* Before staining, use a "pre-stain". This can be purchased at the hardware store or you can make your own by filling a coffee can half full with mineral spirits, dipping your brush in the varnish you will be using, then cleaning the brush in the mineral spirits. Dip and clean the brush twice in the mineral spirits if it's a small brush. The mineral spirits you cleaned the brush in is now "pre-stain". Apply the pre-stain to the entire area to be stained with one light but thorough coat. Your wood will now accept stain in a more even fashion, minimizing blotches, and it will allow you to have better control with the stain on the filled areas.
* Once your cabinet staining is finished, allow the the cabinet to dry for one or two days. Otherwise, your first coat of varnish will be more apt to lift the stain from areas, messing-up your nice stain job.
* After applying your first coat of varnish, let it dry for AT LEAST 24 hours (preferably 48 ), then lightly sand the entire varnished area with 440 sandpaper, then thoroughly remove the sanding dust with a tack cloth before applying your second coat of varnish. Always apply a minimum of two coats of varnish, although a third coat is preferred. Some people use as many as five coats. Always allow AT LEAST 24 HOURS of drying time per coat, and always sand and wipe between coats. Once the varnishing is complete, allow the cabinet to set for a minimum of three days, but a week to ten days is preferred.
* I highly recommend using a quality high gloss marine varnish. It will be far less proned to chipping, peeling, cracking, and UV damage than other products. However, like most clear coatings, it will darken a little over the years.
* Maintain the finish with a good furniture wax.
FWIW, brass hardware looks much nicer than chrome on a stained finish.
* Be particular with your usage of PL. DO NOT put too little, but try not to over-do it by much. Try to keep the ooze-out to "a minimum" (but again, not too little). DO NOT wipe the PL that oozes out, as that will seal more of the wood in the corners. Sealed wood will not take stain. Instead, carefully and lightly remove the dried PL ooze with a wide wood chisel. Buy a "sanding sponge" and use it to sand more of the excess PL out of the corners. Remember to always sand with the direction of the wood grain. Even though this may be a bit difficult to do, do the best that you can, and do not allow temptation to let you sand against the grain.
* Instead of Bondo, use wood filler. It is sandable and stainable. DO NOT use Color Putty. Try to be sparing with the wood filler, and sand it down as much as you can.
* Before staining, use a "pre-stain". This can be purchased at the hardware store or you can make your own by filling a coffee can half full with mineral spirits, dipping your brush in the varnish you will be using, then cleaning the brush in the mineral spirits. Dip and clean the brush twice in the mineral spirits if it's a small brush. The mineral spirits you cleaned the brush in is now "pre-stain". Apply the pre-stain to the entire area to be stained with one light but thorough coat. Your wood will now accept stain in a more even fashion, minimizing blotches, and it will allow you to have better control with the stain on the filled areas.
* Once your cabinet staining is finished, allow the the cabinet to dry for one or two days. Otherwise, your first coat of varnish will be more apt to lift the stain from areas, messing-up your nice stain job.
* After applying your first coat of varnish, let it dry for AT LEAST 24 hours (preferably 48 ), then lightly sand the entire varnished area with 440 sandpaper, then thoroughly remove the sanding dust with a tack cloth before applying your second coat of varnish. Always apply a minimum of two coats of varnish, although a third coat is preferred. Some people use as many as five coats. Always allow AT LEAST 24 HOURS of drying time per coat, and always sand and wipe between coats. Once the varnishing is complete, allow the cabinet to set for a minimum of three days, but a week to ten days is preferred.
* I highly recommend using a quality high gloss marine varnish. It will be far less proned to chipping, peeling, cracking, and UV damage than other products. However, like most clear coatings, it will darken a little over the years.
* Maintain the finish with a good furniture wax.
FWIW, brass hardware looks much nicer than chrome on a stained finish.
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bgavin
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I remove the PL bead with a plastic picnic knife, then remove the rest by wiping the joint with a paper towel. Last, I use a fresh paper towel with Mineral Sprits to remove the wipe residue. It worked well when I stained the box.
This is a utility game box, so it actually worked out best to counter sink the six screws I used to hold the interior brace in place during gluing.
This is a utility game box, so it actually worked out best to counter sink the six screws I used to hold the interior brace in place during gluing.
My biggest worry is that when I'm dead and gone, my wife will sell my toys for what I said I paid for them.
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Sydney
Tim Ard said:
The pre-colored wood puttys are pricey and hard to color match. So I use a mix of the sawdust with wood glue and tint with the stain to make a paste.
( No formulas - mix and test )
This work pretty well for the wood I reclaim for trim, ( from the local "Jenny Linn" buildings ) that have very old wide boards from a variety of tree species.
* Those tubs or cans of wood putty dry out quickly before I have been able to use it up - So I've found you can rejuvenate with a few drops of acetone stirred in - I've added my saved sawdust and used this to "tint" the paste.
I've seen examples of hand graining that were absolutely stunning considering the original folk use was to cover up a plain surface.
I save baggies of sawdust for the each type wood ( cherry, etc ) as I cut to use as filler later for small nail holes etc.A plug of the same type of wood,
The pre-colored wood puttys are pricey and hard to color match. So I use a mix of the sawdust with wood glue and tint with the stain to make a paste.
( No formulas - mix and test )
This work pretty well for the wood I reclaim for trim, ( from the local "Jenny Linn" buildings ) that have very old wide boards from a variety of tree species.
* Those tubs or cans of wood putty dry out quickly before I have been able to use it up - So I've found you can rejuvenate with a few drops of acetone stirred in - I've added my saved sawdust and used this to "tint" the paste.
I used art grade latex paint to help "disguise" the dings in an old acoustic guitar with a compatible clear finish to seal.draw the grain pattern
I've seen examples of hand graining that were absolutely stunning considering the original folk use was to cover up a plain surface.
I use the sawdust trick too.
Interesting lore about graining wood:
In days of yore, all wood cost the same. Oak, pine, whatever. It didn't matter because you just chopped down any old tree. All species were plentiful.
However, paint cost a fortune. And the cost would change depending on color. Blue, for instance, was very costly, while red was relatively inexpensive.
Since wood was wood, people with little means would install oak because it could be made to look nice by rubbing oil on it. Not so for those who had money! They'd install a tight grained wood like maple or poplar and paint it because...welll...they could! Or stranger still, instead of installing oak, they'd install the plain grained wood and then pay someone to glaze it so it looked like...OAK!
Hey, it was all the rage and proved to your guests you had money, even if you had few brains.
I love fads.
Interesting lore about graining wood:
In days of yore, all wood cost the same. Oak, pine, whatever. It didn't matter because you just chopped down any old tree. All species were plentiful.
However, paint cost a fortune. And the cost would change depending on color. Blue, for instance, was very costly, while red was relatively inexpensive.
Since wood was wood, people with little means would install oak because it could be made to look nice by rubbing oil on it. Not so for those who had money! They'd install a tight grained wood like maple or poplar and paint it because...welll...they could! Or stranger still, instead of installing oak, they'd install the plain grained wood and then pay someone to glaze it so it looked like...OAK!
Hey, it was all the rage and proved to your guests you had money, even if you had few brains.
I love fads.
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Sydney
Presto,Chango! mahogany to oak
Just like karma... what goes around, comes around,Or stranger still, instead of installing oak, they'd install the plain grained wood and then pay someone to glaze it so it looked like...OAK!
check bottom of link:
http://www.westcoastwoodworks.com/backbars.htm
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DAVID_L_PERRY
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LelandCrooks
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For my table tuba, I used carpenters wood glue for all the visible joints. I did not want the risk of PL screwing up the stain. You need to be precise if you use yellow glue. Lots of clamps, biscuits, and fussing about to get a tight fit.
If it's too loud, you're even older than me! Like me.
http://www.speakerhardware.com
http://www.speakerhardware.com