Anyone have Crown CTS series experience?

[Zippie]

I’ve come across some Crown Commercial Installation CTS series amps at pretty cheap prices from a used gear vendor that tests and warrants gear(reasonable tryout period maybe 30 days).

Wanting to know if anyone has experience with these amps.
They can run on Harman audio architect.

Is this typically acceptable for tuning and brick wall limiting or would a Driverack still be suggested?
I’m planning to use OSM or REW as options for RTA to use when tuning. Unless a Driverack shows up on the horizon.

Just wanna make sure there isn’t some real obvious spec or issue with them that I’m over looking that would be a deal breaker.
I do realize I will need to make I/O patch plates since they are install and don’t have XLR or Speakon connection options.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
-Zip

[Zippie]

I like the install amps because they are kinda sleepers to the live production world and you can get them for way less because they aren’t very well known except for integrators and system designers. These amps rival amps marketed in live for 4 to 5 times the cost even used for the same output and features. I’m looking at around 30-60% off from that if I buy them soon.

[Bruce Weldy]

They aren't used in live sound because of the connectors. Molex type input instead of xlr and small binding post instead of the large ones or Speakon. They don't have any interal processing. Just the highpass switches and input options on the back. I've found just the opposite to be true on pricing - install speakers are usually way higher than live sound. I was just looking at the new Crown install amps for a venue that had one go down.....they were stupid expensive. I sold him one of my used Crown XTIs for $300.

[Zippie]

Thank you Bruce. I agree completely about the connections. I’ll try to clarify my thoughts.

My last comment was to intend to make an input/output patch plate in a rack with XLR and Speakon plates.

As far as price, they are considerably higher at the MSRP because they do a lot more as a utility amp for various installation needs, my point was that they are typically cheaper in the used market for lack of knowledge or sticker shock if someone saw a new price.

I can get a CTS2000 right now for around $150 pushing 1000 watts 8ohm would be comparable to an xti6000 that pushes 1200 per channel 8ohm that runs about $800-1,000 used.

As far as DSP they run the Harman PIP2 card which enable HIQnet Audio Architect and its full DSP functionality.

My main concern was are the filters and dsp within audio architect sufficient for proper limiting and protection in horn based cabinets where it’s much more critical?

Are you familiar with Audio Architect or do you typically just stick with the Driverack for system tuning and limiting?

Thanks,
-Zip

[Bruce Weldy]

I've been looking at the manual. This section concerns me....

Q. Mode Switch

This two-position switch is used to select the amplifier’s mode of operation: Dual or Bridge Mono.

Dual mode is used for 2/4/8 ohms, for 70V operation with the CTs 600/1200, and for 70/100V operation with the CTs 2000/3000. Bridge mode is used for 4/8/16 ohms, for 140V operation with the CTs 600/1200, and for 100/140/200V operation with the CTs 2000/3000.

According to this, the Dual mode only works for 70v/100v operation with the 2000 model. You'd have to use Bridge mode to use as a standard 4/8/16 ohm operation. That would make it a one channel amp. This verbiage is kinda' confusing, so maybe a call to crown would be in order.

Also, there's a cover on the back that you have to remove to be sure the input sensitivity is correct...not just the switch.

But most importantly. I do not belive that you can use the Crown softward with this amp......unless it runs telepathically. Cuz, there ain't no connection that I can see to hook up the computer.

Take this with a grain of salt and do your own investigation, but I'd pass personally - no matter how cheap. (not to mention they weigh 27 pounds).

One other issue that would concerm me in a live sound situation is needing to do a quick swap with another amp should the need arise. Unless you have more of the same model hanging around, swapping out would be tedious with the weird connections.

The good part of your plan though, is to build rack panels to bring all connections to the back and keep prying eyes and hands away from the back of the amps and processing.

As you your question about Crown's software, I did use it one time on a one-off gig running some xti 4000 and 6000. I found it a giant PITA. But, I was doing it on the fly, so that probably wasn't a fair assesment. And yes, I do like Driveracks - they get the job done all in one place and aren't very hard to navigate.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Regarding the dual/bridge switch, when you bridge two channels you double the voltage compared to one channel, but also double the minimum impedance load. That's why it says 'Dual mode is used for 2/4/8 ohms... Bridge mode is used for 4/8/16 ohms'.

[Zippie]

Thank you guys. That all makes sense. I was just wanting to make sure that audio architect was appropriate for limiting and tuning from experience. Will have to do a little more research.
After doing some closer review on the amp listings some of them have the Ethernet ports on the back on the input card, some done. The owners manual does not show the optional cards, only the standard BBY input card.
I’ll have to be selective about it if I want that option.

[Bruce Weldy]

Are you sure they are all CTS models? I didn't see any of those models with any option for DSP.

[Strange Kevin]

I have a couple of these amps pulled from an old install.
Their might be an optioinal DSP card available for these, but mine are just boring old regular amps. They are fine amps for another permanent installation or your shop speakers but are pretty heavy for a mobile system.
You could wire up a patch panel or little Speak-on tails for the back of the amp so you don't have to worry about amps connections.

[Zippie]

Yeah. I’m sure it’s the CTS. They are the next model after the ComTech line.

The euro blocks on the back are in a removable card slot.

It’s the panel that you remove to select sensitivity/70v you mentioned.

It seems the dual mode notes have to do with the small amps not pushing 100v without an additional autoformer, this is why it separates 70/100 for 2000, 3000.

There are drawings of the T170 and TP170 autoformers in the manual that are required for the small amps to run 100v.

Also, notes explaining the PIP modules and Audio Architect are on the same page that explains the sensitivity switch behind the panel and the T170 and TP170 autoformers.

The large amps do seem to have output ratings specified for dual mode in 2/4/8 as well. It is strange the way it is noted though. Makes you double take.

I’ve looked at all the models in the listings for sale.
600, 1200, 2000, 3000.

I have seen them all with and without the pip card slot to enable audio architect via Ethernet.
There is no DSP control on the amp itself. It seems to be controlled through the pip card via audio architect.
There are no navigation buttons or screen on amp.
So it may be deceiving in that way.
Doesn’t seem to be any way to change settings without PC connection.
I’ll attach a comparison of the cards.

[Zippie]

Thanks Kevin. They seem pretty solid spec wise. I’m just a hobby guy trying not to go broke. lol. I think if it was a random seller online I’d be more suspicious. The fact that they are sold tested and verified by a company with a money back guarantee is a little peace of mind to try them. Again, really not much money for what they can do. I really was hoping to get more info on the functionality of audio architect to application. I have run it for a CDi1000(also install version I got for a song, lol). Just hoping to have a little more confidence. At the end of the day I can run a drive rack into them if I’m not happy with the DSP. The power is still there. Doesn’t necessarily need to be a deal breaker.

[Bruce Weldy]

If you're good with the weight and you can get the DSP in 'em, then go for it. But definitely build a rack panel and don't try to use pigtails for those connections.

Just be sure that you use a voltmeter to test the limiting to make sure it clamps down tight for your subs.

[rotebass]

We just retired 8 units of CTS1200 and 2000, after 15 years of being on 24/7 they have become too unreliable and the repair bills were getting out of hand.

Most installed amps would have lived a similar service life, so I would say buyer beware on that factor alone.

[Zippie]

Noted Bruce! Thank you rote.

One thing for me is that these amps all come almost exclusively from churches so maybe 2 or 3 sets a week more than likely. With special events or conferences possibly.
Also, they seem to get over built just right and run easy for church use unless is a hyper mega church that needs a Metallica level service. Haha. They do exist.

Officially became a proud owner of the full 2026 BFM plans!!!!
Woot woot!
Now for the reading and head scratching. Honestly I’m thinking these CTS amps could be overkill for most BFM Cabs running smoothly sub 300 watts. Maybe some 600s, I can get them for like $35.

My SRX728 subs peak around 160v and a half a bottle of ibuprofen after moving them. Ready to put them on the market and build some lighter speakers that sip.

Gonna be a while as I’m currently in the middle of a herniated disc in my back that’s a comeback of a surgery from 18 mos ago. Hoping to be back on my feet soon, but staring down the barrel of another surgery if PT doesn’t make drastic improvements in a couple weeks.

All things considered I’ve got plenty of time to review plans and count sheets of lumber in prep.

Wanna thank everyone for the input and thoughts. Seems like these threads can rabbit trail in a min. It has all been very helpful in the decision making process. It means a lot.