ringing out

[Rich4349]

I'll be supplying sound for a memorial service next week, and am dusting off the equipment. I have three amps to choose from to use:

Crown Xti4000 (650w x 2 @8; 1200 x 2 @ 4)
https://manualzz.com/doc/2037217/crown- ... ser-manual

Ashley FTX 2001 (300w x 2 @ 8; 500w x 2 @ 4
https://ashly.com/wp-content/uploads/20 ... rs-r07.pdf

Ashley NE 800 (225w x 2 @8, 400w x 2 @ 4)
https://ashly.com/wp-content/uploads/20 ... hannel.pdf

Ashley 3102 31 band 2 ch EQ.

I THOUGHT that I really needed to use the Crown to push one T-48, leaving the choice for the mains is between the two Ashleys. The mains are 5.3 ohms.

Can I clean up the sound by ringing out the mains / hall combination with the Crown's built in RTA, then switch over to one of the Ashleys and emulate the EQ manually on the Ashley EQ? I realize the ringing out process encapsulates the sound of the Crown, but I imagine with solid state internals, that should have a far lesser effect than the color of the mains and the effects of the room.

Would I better off bridging one of the Ashleys for the T-48, and using the Crown for the mains?

Or run mono, with mains on one channel and T-48 on the other?

[Bruce Weldy]

You don't really ring out the mains. Put on some music you know well and adjust the EQ to look for any room problems. Typically, inside issues will mostly live in the 100-250hz range. Listen for nasally sounds in the vocals and drop a little between 1-2khz.

To keep real low-end in check, high pass the whole system at 45-50hz. Of course, I have no idea whether you're mixing a band, playing music, or just spoken word.

Run the Crown on the sub. I don't know of any RTA in the xTI series.

[Rich4349]

Oh, crap- you're right- that's in the Behringer! Thanks, I would have been looking for that in the Crown day of!! It's been a minute or 20 since I've set up the whole rig.

[Grant Bunter]

The mains are 5.3 ohms.

What Bruce said

I'm going to take a punt and say you got your multimeter out and measured impedance across the cab terminals?
Just so you know, that's not measuring impedance, it's measuring DC resistance.

If your DC resistance is 5.3, then your nominal cab impedance is around 8 ohms.
How can I know this? Easy, impedance is frequency dependent. In other words, whatever the frequency is determines the impedance measured...

[Rich4349]

Actually, they measured ONE ohm across the terminals, which confused the hell out of me. Then I hooked them up in parallel, and they read the same, which DOUBLE confused me. They're 6, 8 ohm mids: 3 in parallel, then those two groups of three in series.

[Seth]

Oh, crap- you're right- that's in the Behringer! Thanks, I would have been looking for that in the Crown day of!! It's been a minute or 20 since I've set up the whole rig.

The DSP in Behringer amps is very effective. But, as far as I can remember, I don't think they have an RTA function.
If you don't want to spring for a Driverack, you can get acceptable RTA data with a free app on your phone. Even without a calibrated microphone, it will indicate any areas that could use smoothing out.
What are you using for a crossover?

[Bruce Weldy]

Oh, crap- you're right- that's in the Behringer! Thanks, I would have been looking for that in the Crown day of!! It's been a minute or 20 since I've set up the whole rig.

The DSP in Behringer amps is very effective. But, as far as I can remember, I don't think they have an RTA function.
If you don't want to spring for a Driverack, you can get acceptable RTA data with a free app on your phone. Even without a calibrated microphone, it will indicate any areas that could use smoothing out.
What are you using for a crossover?

I believe the Berry DEQ has the auto EQ function. A lot of folks pair that with the 2496. But, the amps don't.

[Rich4349]

Yeah, I meant my DEQ. Why couldn't you read my mind?

[Bruce Weldy]

Yeah, I meant my DEQ. Why couldn't you read my mind?

I kinda' did......been dealing with music-types for years.

[Seth]

Yeah, I meant my DEQ. Why couldn't you read my mind?

Guess I wasn't tuned to the right frequency.
Do you have a DEQ and DCX too?

Either of the Ashly amps should be just fine for the tops.

Since you're intending to use the T48, I assume you'll be playing music. I agree with Bruce that it's not usually necessary to ring out the mains. But, if the memorial will include a wireless mic that gets passed around the room for speeches, definitely activate the feedback suppression in the DEQ and do a pre event walk around the room with the volume a little higher than you think you need while trying to induce feedback, tiss tiss, ch ch sounds in the microphone. It's remarkably effective.

[Rich4349]

Whoops, I mixed up ringing out with RTAing.

[Bruce Weldy]

Whoops, I mixed up ringing out with RTAing.

I guess in the strictest sense, they are kinda' the same thing.....identifying certain frequencies for adjustment. But, we tend to say ringing out for monitors because you are looking for problems that ring or feedback.

[Seth]

How'd it all go Rich? Gig report please.

[Rich4349]

Despite not having set up for about 3-4 years, it finally all went off well. It was a memorial / celebration of life for a close friend's elderly mother who passed. She held it at the local park district's field house, a small room about 30x30, maybe 8' ceiling. Me friend gave me a list of a dozen artists her mother liked: Patsy Cline, Dolly Parton, Dean Martin, etc. I ran into a bit of a snag when it turned out the driver lead wire within the cab was damaged. I didn't know what the issue was, but process of elimination chased it down to the wire, do I bypassed that wire and snuck a thinnish gauge wire right through the access panel gasket. Far from ideal, but it saved the day temporarily. I spent about 3 hours hauling all the speakers, Tupperware, amp tracks, PC etc across town and setting up. I was much more nervous than my friend, luckily. Ran home, showered and changed, got back in plenty of time to start playing as people arrived. I downloaded and used the latest Harmon Audio Architect which was SUPER easy to install and set up. Plug the amp into the PC via USB, and within a minute it identified the Crown and knew exactly what it could do. Instead of fiddling with the select and up and down buttons on the amp, it's all readily and clearly displayed onscreen. My little pre-amp really provides all the extra oomph you could want.
I kept the music low key and on brand for the set list guidelines from about 3-6, then the older crowd headed out gradually and younger coworkers of my friend arrived. Then the fun began, playing whatever they requested and pumping up the volume a fair bit. The lone T-48 was PLENTY as far as dBs, though the T-60s have me permanently spoiled for wow factor. Luckily the building was VERY well constructed out of masonry, and the nearest house was about a block away. I ran out up to about 40-50% of its capability, walked outside, and could JUST tell there was music going on inside. Entertained the fluctuating crowd till about 9, then the crowd got down to a core group of 5-6, and the 10pm noise ordinance was closing in. I asked my friend if I could "open it up" and see what this baby could do. She said sure, though I don't think she had any idea of a Titan's power. I kept the high pass at 45 and started giving it the beans. Between the PC volume, pre-amp volume, and Crown attenuators, there's really a lot of hidden power waiting in the wings. I know you're supposed to crank up the amp and only use one volume, but doing that REALLY gives the main volume a hair trigger, like swinging a baseball bat that's 50' long. As per my usual, I went with Blue Man Group's remake of Donna Summers' "I Feel Love". Holy shit. What the Titan gives up in extension, it more than makes up for with raw dBs. It was snowing acoustic ceiling panel dust in the room- my friend even noticed that. I actually got the bass loud enough that *I* really didn't want / "need" any more lol.
With the help of 3 family members, the 3 hour set up was offset by a 35 minute tear-down.
Overall everyone was quite satisfied, especially my friend. It was good to jump back in even if for just a night, and see that I could get the job done. This was the first time I had used a T-48; I've only used my 2 T-39s in the past. I'm looking forward to using more 48s together in the future, though DEFINITELY outside!

[Tom Smit]

Thanks muchly for the report!