Somewhat of a newbie question: 4 Cerwin Vega L36pe OR (vs) 4 BFM T48s OR T60s

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tribal king
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Somewhat of a newbie question: 4 Cerwin Vega L36pe OR (vs) 4 BFM T48s OR T60s

#1 Post by tribal king »

Good day guys, the header just about tells all. I grew up hearing the Cerwin Vegas a lot and loved how they "hit" and was wondering how do they compare to the BFM T48s and or the T60s. Got the plans for all mentioned, just narrowing down the lot to what's most feasible. Thanks a mil in advance

PS: I joined the group a few years ago and had issues signing in earlier this year so I eventually signed up on a new account..

Bruce Weldy
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Re: Somewhat of a newbie question: 4 Cerwin Vega L36pe OR (vs) 4 BFM T48s OR T60s

#2 Post by Bruce Weldy »

tribal king wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 3:13 pm Good day guys, the header just about tells all. I grew up hearing the Cerwin Vegas a lot and loved how they "hit" and was wondering how do they compare to the BFM T48s and or the T60s. Got the plans for all mentioned, just narrowing down the lot to what's most feasible. Thanks a mil in advance

PS: I joined the group a few years ago and had issues signing in earlier this year so I eventually signed up on a new account..
What kind of music? DJ? Live band?

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

tribal king
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Re: Somewhat of a newbie question: 4 Cerwin Vega L36pe OR (vs) 4 BFM T48s OR T60s

#3 Post by tribal king »

Bruce Weldy wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 3:24 pm
tribal king wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 3:13 pm Good day guys, the header just about tells all. I grew up hearing the Cerwin Vegas a lot and loved how they "hit" and was wondering how do they compare to the BFM T48s and or the T60s. Got the plans for all mentioned, just narrowing down the lot to what's most feasible. Thanks a mil in advance

PS: I joined the group a few years ago and had issues signing in earlier this year so I eventually signed up on a new account..
What kind of music? DJ? Live band?
Mainly DJ. Born and bred in the Caribbean so Calypso/Soca, Reggae/Dancehall(old school), Hip-Hop, Dance (techno/trance) etc. etc.

Bruce Weldy
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Re: Somewhat of a newbie question: 4 Cerwin Vega L36pe OR (vs) 4 BFM T48s OR T60s

#4 Post by Bruce Weldy »

tribal king wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 3:36 pm
Bruce Weldy wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 3:24 pm
tribal king wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 3:13 pm Good day guys, the header just about tells all. I grew up hearing the Cerwin Vegas a lot and loved how they "hit" and was wondering how do they compare to the BFM T48s and or the T60s. Got the plans for all mentioned, just narrowing down the lot to what's most feasible. Thanks a mil in advance

PS: I joined the group a few years ago and had issues signing in earlier this year so I eventually signed up on a new account..
What kind of music? DJ? Live band?
Mainly DJ. Born and bred in the Caribbean so Calypso/Soca, Reggae/Dancehall(old school), Hip-Hop, Dance (techno/trance) etc. etc.
T-48s should handle anything you want to do and will be a huge upgrade from the CVs. T48s are much easier to move than T60s and will have plenty of output above 35hz or so.

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

Grant Bunter
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Re: Somewhat of a newbie question: 4 Cerwin Vega L36pe OR (vs) 4 BFM T48s OR T60s

#5 Post by Grant Bunter »

Hey, welcome back to the forum.

The CW is a folded horn, as is the T48 or T60, so it's not likely to sound all that different.

You should end up with better brand new cabs + change (including an amp and a driverack) compared to buying CWL36pe's.

What to build, well, you haven't told us what you're playing (content), audience size, distance to cover and SPL at that point.
If you can answer that, then we can help you more.

I notice the L36 is a pretty large cab.
FYI, the T60 is like a large fridge...
Last edited by Grant Bunter on Tue Nov 01, 2022 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" BP102 , 2 x 28" 3012lf.
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Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

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Re: Somewhat of a newbie question: 4 Cerwin Vega L36pe OR (vs) 4 BFM T48s OR T60s

#6 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

Grant Bunter wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 3:48 pm The CW is a folded horn, as is the T48 or T60, so it's not likely to sound all that different.
They're very different. The CV is loaded with an eighteen, which results in a horn that's too small. It's barely better than a reflex box, not even close to the T48, let alone the T60.

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Re: Somewhat of a newbie question: 4 Cerwin Vega L36pe OR (vs) 4 BFM T48s OR T60s

#7 Post by Grant Bunter »

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 4:07 pm
Grant Bunter wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 3:48 pm The CW is a folded horn, as is the T48 or T60, so it's not likely to sound all that different.
They're very different. The CV is loaded with an eighteen, which results in a horn that's too small. It's barely better than a reflex box, not even close to the T48, let alone the T60.

Image
The question was "sound like".
Since they're all folded horns, the natural filtering of harmonics a horn provides will have them all sounding cleaner than their direct radiator counterparts. Yes?
If the question had been about response, my answer would have been different.

I did say the cost of building either, compared to buying, would be a better thing and still have change.

So, for the OP:
The +6dB differential in output for the T48 compared to the CVL36 (at 100Hz) means that 4 x T48's will have as much output as 8 x C-W L36's...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" BP102 , 2 x 28" 3012lf.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

tribal king
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Re: Somewhat of a newbie question: 4 Cerwin Vega L36pe OR (vs) 4 BFM T48s OR T60s

#8 Post by tribal king »

Grant Bunter wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 4:43 pm
Bill Fitzmaurice wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 4:07 pm
Grant Bunter wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 3:48 pm The CW is a folded horn, as is the T48 or T60, so it's not likely to sound all that different.
They're very different. The CV is loaded with an eighteen, which results in a horn that's too small. It's barely better than a reflex box, not even close to the T48, let alone the T60.

Image
The question was "sound like".
Since they're all folded horns, the natural filtering of harmonics a horn provides will have them all sounding cleaner than their direct radiator counterparts. Yes?
If the question had been about response, my answer would have been different.

I did say the cost of building either, compared to buying, would be a better thing and still have change.

So, for the OP:
The +6dB differential in output for the T48 compared to the CVL36 (at 100Hz) means that 4 x T48's will have as much output as 8 x C-W L36's...
Well I got my answer! 4 T48s it is! :hyper: Thanks guys. Another thing, for now I got a few JBL 2226H subs, looking at the T48 plans it seems they fall within the suggested parameters (Fs=40Hz, Qts=0.31, Xmax=7.6mm), question, does anybody have real world experiences with those transducers in this particular application?

PS: I know the 3015LF is optimum BUT where I'm from we got no dealers for Eminence also shipping and customs fees are killers, so for now I got to use what I got till better can be done.
Last edited by tribal king on Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tribal king
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Re: Somewhat of a newbie question: 4 Cerwin Vega L36pe OR (vs) 4 BFM T48s OR T60s

#9 Post by tribal king »

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 4:07 pm
Grant Bunter wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 3:48 pm The CW is a folded horn, as is the T48 or T60, so it's not likely to sound all that different.
They're very different. The CV is loaded with an eighteen, which results in a horn that's too small. It's barely better than a reflex box, not even close to the T48, let alone the T60.

Image
Big difference overall. Say no more. Thanks Bill!!! (can't say it enough)

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Re: Somewhat of a newbie question: 4 Cerwin Vega L36pe OR (vs) 4 BFM T48s OR T60s

#10 Post by Seth »

tribal king wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:13 pm ...I got a few JBL 2226H subs, looking at the T48 plans it seems they fall within the suggested parameters (Fs=40Hz, Qts=0.31, Xmax=7.6mm), question, does anybody have real world experiences with those transducers in this particular application?
I'm not aware of anyone using that specific driver. However, they are indeed within spec and will absolutely pound in T48's.

That 10dB difference between the CV and T48 at 70Hz indicates to me, if they were both EQ'd to the same target response curve, the T48 would only need about 40 watts to match the output of the CV on 400 watts.

Here's the kicker... the T48 response curve indicated in that graph is for a 24" wide T48. The wider you build the cabs, the more bottom end sensitivity you'll achieve, and you can build T48's as wide as 36". If you're able to stow and transport cabs with those dimensions, it's highly advisable.

Also

The 5.5dB difference between the 24" and 36" T48 at 40Hz is huge. The 36" cab would only require 127 watts to match the output of a 24" cab at 450 watts.

If 36" is just too big, build as wide as you possibly can.

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Re: Somewhat of a newbie question: 4 Cerwin Vega L36pe OR (vs) 4 BFM T48s OR T60s

#11 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

The 2226 is OK. It's not recommended because the price is absurd, twice that of the 3015LF that works better and is half the weight.

tribal king
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Re: Somewhat of a newbie question: 4 Cerwin Vega L36pe OR (vs) 4 BFM T48s OR T60s

#12 Post by tribal king »

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 10:59 am The 2226 is OK. It's not recommended because the price is absurd, twice that of the 3015LF that works better and is half the weight.
I know but in my case my brother got them from his job (a big name hotel) when they were updating their conference centre PA System. They were actually throwing out ALL their speaker cabinets, I got them for "$free ninety nine" :D lol

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Re: Somewhat of a newbie question: 4 Cerwin Vega L36pe OR (vs) 4 BFM T48s OR T60s

#13 Post by Tom Smit »

tribal king wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:27 pm
Bill Fitzmaurice wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 10:59 am The 2226 is OK. It's not recommended because the price is absurd, twice that of the 3015LF that works better and is half the weight.
I know but in my case my brother got them from his job (a big name hotel) when they were updating their conference centre PA System. They were actually throwing out ALL their speaker cabinets, I got them for "$free ninety nine" :D lol
Awesome find!
TomS

tribal king
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Re: Somewhat of a newbie question: 4 Cerwin Vega L36pe OR (vs) 4 BFM T48s OR T60s

#14 Post by tribal king »

Tom Smit wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:35 pm
tribal king wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:27 pm
Bill Fitzmaurice wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 10:59 am The 2226 is OK. It's not recommended because the price is absurd, twice that of the 3015LF that works better and is half the weight.
I know but in my case my brother got them from his job (a big name hotel) when they were updating their conference centre PA System. They were actually throwing out ALL their speaker cabinets, I got them for "$free ninety nine" :D lol
Awesome find!
Yup they had 16 of them in cabinets but by the time my brother (Electrical Engineering Supervisor) got to them only 4 remained lol.
Best part they were never abused nor re-coned, all ORIGINAL.

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Re: Somewhat of a newbie question: 4 Cerwin Vega L36pe OR (vs) 4 BFM T48s OR T60s

#15 Post by ACUA »

Those Cerwin Vega cabs are fart boxes. They make a lot of noise but it it hardly sound reproduction.
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