Driver suitability for TTLS

For livingroom sound better than in a theatre.
Post Reply
Message
Author
G-Train
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2022 4:27 pm

Driver suitability for TTLS

#1 Post by G-Train »

Hi all. My first post here.
I’ve been researching subs for my current set up.
Speakers are Cornscala type speakers. Basically Klipsch Cornwall bass section with better horns.

I am considering the ttls and the Lilmike Picowrecker but going off what I’ve read on forums am leaning hard to the BFM units.

Now the issue is I’ve gone and purchased 4 x Alpine S-W10D4 ten inch drivers.
I know that for sure they work well in the Pico’s but am not sure if they are suitable for the ttls.

Going from the ttls instructions that I purchased, Bill says 10 inch drivers similar ts parameters to the 8 inch Dayton units will work.
I just wanted to post the ts specs in case someone with better knowledge than me (maybe Bill) can confirm that they will work.

Alpine S-W10D4

SPL (1W/1M)85.3 dB
Re - 3.8+3.8 (DVC)
Le - 1.59 mH
Fs - 34 HZ
Vas - 24.7 L
Qms - 4.21
Qes - 0.51
Qts - 0 .46
Sd - 330cm2
Xmax - 15mm
Power handling is 600 to 1800 watts peak.

If the drivers are suitable, I will be building them as a dual driver set up.
My room is kinda large, approx 6000ft3 or 21 x 24 ft with vaulted ceilings 17ft high at the apex.
Waf dictates that I build smallerish subs otherwise I would have gone with the THTLS.

The subs will be for music 99% of the time so don’t need sub 20hz.

Any help/info would be greatly appreciated.

Gerome.

Grant Bunter
Posts: 6915
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:12 am
Location: Ilfracombe Queensland Australia
Contact:

Re: Driver suitability for TTLS

#2 Post by Grant Bunter »

Hi Gerome,
Welcome to the forum :)

You mentioned the plans, so you already have them which is good.
Did you misread though.
My admittedly older plans say the Dayton DCS255-4 is a suitable 10" driver, so other drivers 10" with similar specs will be ok.

Your Alpines are mostly within spec for the TTLS.
I'm assuming that with a RE of 3.8+3.8 that they are 8 ohm drivers unless you were to parallel the coils then wire the 2 in series for 4 ohms, or wire the coils on each in series and parallel the pair for 8 ohms.
Vas is low, more than 10% out of spec. Is that a deal breaker? Is it worse considering you want to dual load?
I'm not sure.
You didn't mention depth. How deep are your Alpines?

Where are you in the world?
Are you somewhere that can get the Daytons easily? And move the Alpines on?
While the Xmax is good, you're simply not going to need drivers that can take that power, or the amp to drive them.

Enjoy yourself here in the forum, lots of people will probably chime in with answers and questions of their own...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

G-Train
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2022 4:27 pm

Re: Driver suitability for TTLS

#3 Post by G-Train »

Hi Grant.
I’m in Perth mate.
Yep I made a type o in my post. Yes I was referring to the Dayton 255-4.
If they are suitable I was going to wire the voice coils in series then parallel the drivers to make them 4ohms.
The total depth of the driver is about 123mm without the rubber gasket which is shallower than the Dayton.
They come with a rubber gasket/surround that would make them hard to face mount, so I’d remove it and create a gasket.

I have a Behringer inuke 3000dsp.

User avatar
Bill Fitzmaurice
Site Admin
Posts: 28619
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 5:59 pm

Re: Driver suitability for TTLS

#4 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

The drivers are OK, but you'll get much better results with one per cab, spreading the cabs about the room.

G-Train
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2022 4:27 pm

Re: Driver suitability for TTLS

#5 Post by G-Train »

Hi Bill, roger that. I have the plans for the TT as well so I could build 2 x TT and 2 X TTLS.
I have some ideas to make them look like mid century modern pieces of furniture.

You mentioned that the drivers are ok. Do you think they will take a negative hit in performance over the Daytons.

User avatar
Bill Fitzmaurice
Site Admin
Posts: 28619
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 5:59 pm

Re: Driver suitability for TTLS

#6 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

They should work as well as the Dayton, especially in a narrow cab. Using four of them I'd do that.

Grant Bunter
Posts: 6915
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:12 am
Location: Ilfracombe Queensland Australia
Contact:

Re: Driver suitability for TTLS

#7 Post by Grant Bunter »

G-Train wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:20 am Hi Grant.
I’m in Perth mate.
Yep I made a type o in my post. Yes I was referring to the Dayton 255-4.
If they are suitable I was going to wire the voice coils in series then parallel the drivers to make them 4ohms.
The total depth of the driver is about 123mm without the rubber gasket which is shallower than the Dayton.
They come with a rubber gasket/surround that would make them hard to face mount, so I’d remove it and create a gasket.

I have a Behringer inuke 3000dsp.
Arrr another Aussie on board, awesome!
I guess it depends on what you paid for the Alpines, but Dayton is available in Australia through WES components or Wagners online.
Same company, but WES is trade/wholesale only. It was simply a matter of joining up to get trade (but I had bought a lot of stuff via Wagners prior).
Probably the best pricing in Australia for Neutrik as well.
The Dayton RS 225-4 via Wagners is $139 and the 8 ohm version is $159.
There's a big jump for the 10" though.
So if you paid more than that per driver, and want the recommended driver, you can get it here.

Also a great place to look for a full range of fans if you find the berry amp is a bit noisy inside...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

G-Train
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2022 4:27 pm

Re: Driver suitability for TTLS

#8 Post by G-Train »

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:18 am They should work as well as the Dayton, especially in a narrow cab. Using four of them I'd do that.
Thanks Bill. Do you think I should go for the 16 or 22 inch wide cabinets?

Yes can never be too many aussies around mate!
Thanks for the info. Will probably just stick with the alpines now that I have ‘em.

The fan on the inuke is a noisey bastard alright. Must get around to that fan mod. I’ve had it for years.

I was in your beautiful state a couple weeks ago. Knocking around Broadbeach on the Goldcoast.

I’ll definitely do a build thread when I start the project.

User avatar
Bill Fitzmaurice
Site Admin
Posts: 28619
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 5:59 pm

Re: Driver suitability for TTLS

#9 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

I'd do 16 inch. With one or two wider is better, but four 16 inch is the same as two 32 inch.

User avatar
Tom Smit
Posts: 7457
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: Sarnia, Ont. Canada

Re: Driver suitability for TTLS

#10 Post by Tom Smit »

G-Train, welcome to the forum!

When I read that you have that large of a room, I immediately thought that you should go the 4-singles route. Whether they are 16 or 22, I would suggest 22", getting the most out of the bottom end....but that is oooonly if Bill says that your driver will work well in a 22".
TomS

G-Train
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2022 4:27 pm

Re: Driver suitability for TTLS

#11 Post by G-Train »

Thanks Tom.
It’s always tempting to go bigger.
But I’ll have a crack at Master Yoda’s recommendation of 16”.
I think aesthetically it will be easier to get the look I’m after to make the good woman happy.
She’ll also be happy if they doov doov well too. Bless her.

G-Train
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2022 4:27 pm

Re: Driver suitability for TTLS

#12 Post by G-Train »

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:59 pm I'd do 16 inch. With one or two wider is better, but four 16 inch is the same as two 32 inch.
Should I still go for 16” wide if I can’t corner load the 4 subs?
Would 22” be better output wise if there is no wall or corner loading for the 4 TTs.

When I get chance I’ll upload some pictures of the room. It’s kinda oddly shaped. Quite challenging acoustics. I have a Trinnov st2 hifi room/speaker optimiser that works wonders. It has bass management for two subs. Going to be interesting hooking up 4 subs. Not sure how I’ll go about that yet.

G-Train
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2022 4:27 pm

Re: Driver suitability for TTLS

#13 Post by G-Train »

667A639F-693B-4834-A19D-B4AF474FF205.jpeg
8AF42A0F-5B89-49A0-B94C-5DA8BD21B74B.jpeg
Pictures taken from each corner of the room.
We’ve almost finished the Reno’s.
Attachments
C7ED7DF7-FB2D-4C31-BD43-70334E656CBE.jpeg
A14604AB-5E15-4888-BAF2-4222689C2FBD.jpeg

User avatar
Tom Smit
Posts: 7457
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: Sarnia, Ont. Canada

Re: Driver suitability for TTLS

#14 Post by Tom Smit »

Interesting room. I see projections that will help break up standing waves. Sloped ceiling helps in offering control of bass frequencies as well.

Is that brick structure with the cacti on it, a storage on the other side, or is it a bell (for heat storage) for the fireplace?


Bill recommended the 16" width. The subs can either be the standard TT, or the TTLS, or a mix for whatever works/looks best in the room.
TomS

G-Train
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2022 4:27 pm

Re: Driver suitability for TTLS

#15 Post by G-Train »

Hi Tom.
Yes that projection is a bell for the fireplace. I had to cut out the old fire box (old school heatilator type), wasn’t fun at all. There’ll be a wood burning heater put in its place.

Good to know that that the ceilings and projections will help the bass.

The echo in the room is terrible at the moment.
Hopefully rugs and furniture will calm it down.

Some room treatment will definitely be on the cards. Probably DIY.
Mids and treble will give me problems.

“Bill recommended the 16" width. The subs can either be the standard TT, or the TTLS, or a mix for whatever works/looks best in the room”

Roger that. I think I’ll be making 2 of each. Let the better half decide.

Cheers mate.

Post Reply