Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

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Seth
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Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#76 Post by Seth »

RYNO20 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:01 am
Seth wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:28 pm
RYNO20 wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:13 pm Up and running, covering not done.
Looks like you doubled up the outer panels with some pine. Is that access panel 3 layers, 1½" thick? Built like a brick!
Okay what’s going on —???
I got the instructions in front of me on paper — 60hz input low amp at full , mixer raise till under 60 volts about 56, bring down threshold till clips , play up and down with volume see no volts above 57 .
Switch to mains and only get max 8ish volts and while messing with it I see sub graph in red (the amp not on) same with the highs no volts hardly won’t even show on the graph on the dbxpa2.
Was doing one channel at a time , using one speaker wire hooked to my volt meter.
HELP
I'm guessing you have the crossover engaged. Either turn the crossover off, lower the high pass to 50Hz, or leave the crossover where it is and try using 600 or 1000 Hz sine wave.

Also, you want the sub channel to not go over 50v. If you're seeing 56-57, keep reducing the threshold.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

Bruce Weldy
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Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#77 Post by Bruce Weldy »

RYNO20 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:01 am bring down threshold till clips ,
What does that mean? There shouldn't be any clipping at all.

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

RYNO20
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:42 pm
Location: Albany, Illinois

Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#78 Post by RYNO20 »

Seth wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:28 am
RYNO20 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:01 am
Seth wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:28 pm

Looks like you doubled up the outer panels with some pine. Is that access panel 3 layers, 1½" thick? Built like a brick!
Okay what’s going on —???
I got the instructions in front of me on paper — 60hz input low amp at full , mixer raise till under 60 volts about 56, bring down threshold till clips , play up and down with volume see no volts above 57 .
Switch to mains and only get max 8ish volts and while messing with it I see sub graph in red (the amp not on) same with the highs no volts hardly won’t even show on the graph on the dbxpa2.
Was doing one channel at a time , using one speaker wire hooked to my volt meter.
HELP
I'm guessing you have the crossover engaged. Either turn the crossover off, lower the high pass to 50Hz, or leave the crossover where it is and try using 600 or 1000 Hz sine wave.

Also, you want the sub channel to not go over 50v. If you're seeing 56-57, keep reducing the threshold.
Yup
That I left on great thanks

RYNO20
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Location: Albany, Illinois

Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#79 Post by RYNO20 »

Bruce Weldy wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 12:37 pm
RYNO20 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:01 am bring down threshold till clips ,
What does that mean? There shouldn't be any clipping at all.
Just while initially setting the limiter, no speakers hooked up

Bruce Weldy
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Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#80 Post by Bruce Weldy »

RYNO20 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 12:53 pm
Bruce Weldy wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 12:37 pm
RYNO20 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:01 am bring down threshold till clips ,
What does that mean? There shouldn't be any clipping at all.
Just while initially setting the limiter, no speakers hooked up
I just don't understand how lowering the threshold could cause clipping - should be the opposite.

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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Seth
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Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#81 Post by Seth »

Bruce Weldy wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 12:55 pm
RYNO20 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 12:53 pm
Bruce Weldy wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 12:37 pm

What does that mean? There shouldn't be any clipping at all.
Just while initially setting the limiter, no speakers hooked up
I just don't understand how lowering the threshold could cause clipping - should be the opposite.
Guessing it's a terminology mix-up. Limiting/clipping. Not having any experience with a Driverack, I don't know. But, the amps I have that have a limiter illuminate the same light as clipping when the limiter is engaged.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

RYNO20
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:42 pm
Location: Albany, Illinois

Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#82 Post by RYNO20 »

Bruce Weldy wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 12:55 pm
RYNO20 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 12:53 pm
Bruce Weldy wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 12:37 pm

What does that mean? There shouldn't be any clipping at all.
Just while initially setting the limiter, no speakers hooked up
I just don't understand how lowering the threshold could cause clipping - should be the opposite.
Wrong wording I meant I was watching the voltage—opps
The dbx has graph that shows red light at top while setting.
Last edited by RYNO20 on Sat Feb 06, 2021 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

RYNO20
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:42 pm
Location: Albany, Illinois

Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#83 Post by RYNO20 »

Seth wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:35 pm
Bruce Weldy wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 12:55 pm
RYNO20 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 12:53 pm

Just while initially setting the limiter, no speakers hooked up
I just don't understand how lowering the threshold could cause clipping - should be the opposite.
Guessing it's a terminology mix-up. Limiting/clipping. Not having any experience with a Driverack, I don't know. But, the amps I have that have a limiter illuminate the same light as clipping when the limiter is engaged.
Now I know why I didn’t turn off xover — don’t know how lol
I can make hp feq out and lp freq anywhere and gain 0.0db ?
Made them read out on hp and lp but gain 0.0
Still not working
Read the manual some more
Even used dbx pink noise gen and got all my attenuators set accordingly, and re checked to 50 volts. Max to sub , can’t seem to read the others yet no matter what is on or off, so I’m happy sub is safe
Yes tried 1,000 Hf etc seemed to help, the pink noise generator in the dbx helped set the amp attenuation, at least to the specs they suggested
And since I got voltage reading on sub and set the limiter I set the limiter the same for the mains, same watt speakers but the highs unknown.
Then I played Led Zeppelin , U2, iron butterfly, yeah my ears are ringing— (it was an awesome concert) and I noticed I’m nowhere near full potential on the master mixer volume where the 50 volts would be.
6DFA68CE-3AFE-41CA-9ACB-13587A4CDB6A.jpeg

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Seth
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Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#84 Post by Seth »

RYNO20 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 2:19 pm
Seth wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:35 pm
Bruce Weldy wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 12:55 pm
I just don't understand how lowering the threshold could cause clipping - should be the opposite.
Guessing it's a terminology mix-up. Limiting/clipping. Not having any experience with a Driverack, I don't know. But, the amps I have that have a limiter illuminate the same light as clipping when the limiter is engaged.
Now I know why I didn’t turn off xover — don’t know how lol
I can make hp feq out and lp freq anywhere and gain 0.0db ?
Made them read out on hp and lp but gain 0.0
Still not working
Read the manual some more
Even used dbx pink noise gen and got all my attenuators set accordingly, and re checked to 50 volts. Max to sub , can’t seem to read the others yet no matter what is on or off, so I’m happy sub is safe
Yes tried 1,000 Hf etc seemed to help, the pink noise generator in the dbx helped set the amp attenuation, at least to the specs they suggested
And since I got voltage reading on sub and set the limiter I set the limiter the same for the mains, same watt speakers but the highs unknown.
Then I played Led Zeppelin , U2, iron butterfly, yeah my ears are ringing— (it was an awesome concert) and I noticed I’m nowhere near full potential on the master mixer volume where the 50 volts would be.6DFA68CE-3AFE-41CA-9ACB-13587A4CDB6A.jpeg
There are some people that do, and some that do not set limiters for the mid/high cabs. The reason people don't is it's very easy to hear when your mids/highs are distorting, it sounds like shit. Where, the distortion in the subs is much more subtle, nearly unnoticeable when the full system is playing. So. that's why many don't limit their tops. Don't really need to.

It's a little difficult to tell what you're doing or not doing from the description you've provided. The sentence structure is also difficult to decipher. I'm guessing you're using speech to text. If you could be a little more specific about the methods you've tried and the results you're seeing, it would be easier to help out. Short of that, I'll try to clarify what I said before.

If you really want to limit the tops and there isn't an option to disable the High Pass filter, or it's not obvious how to do it, just set the high pass for 10 or so HZ below your test sine wave frequency. If your test tone is 60Hz, set the High Pass Filter for 50Hz. The reason for this is, many filters are already rolling off at the set frequency. The Linkwitz-Riley, for instance, is -3dB at the designated cutoff frequency. So, if it's set for 125Hz, it is actually rolling off before that, effecting your test if your test frequency is too close to your cutoff frequency.

Alternatively, you can try using a different test sine wave frequency that's above/higher than your High Pass Frequency. The 600Hz or 1000Hz I mentioned before is the frequency of the sine wave test tone to try, not a crossover frequency. If your High Pass is 125Hz, you can leave it there and run a 600Hz Sine Wave test tone.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

RYNO20
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:42 pm
Location: Albany, Illinois

Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#85 Post by RYNO20 »

Seth wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 2:05 am
RYNO20 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 2:19 pm
Seth wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:35 pm
Guessing it's a terminology mix-up. Limiting/clipping. Not having any experience with a Driverack, I don't know. But, the amps I have that have a limiter illuminate the same light as clipping when the limiter is engaged.
Now I know why I didn’t turn off xover — don’t know how lol
I can make hp feq out and lp freq anywhere and gain 0.0db ?
Made them read out on hp and lp but gain 0.0
Still not working
Read the manual some more
Even used dbx pink noise gen and got all my attenuators set accordingly, and re checked to 50 volts. Max to sub , can’t seem to read the others yet no matter what is on or off, so I’m happy sub is safe
Yes tried 1,000 Hf etc seemed to help, the pink noise generator in the dbx helped set the amp attenuation, at least to the specs they suggested
And since I got voltage reading on sub and set the limiter I set the limiter the same for the mains, same watt speakers but the highs unknown.
Then I played Led Zeppelin , U2, iron butterfly, yeah my ears are ringing— (it was an awesome concert) and I noticed I’m nowhere near full potential on the master mixer volume where the 50 volts would be.6DFA68CE-3AFE-41CA-9ACB-13587A4CDB6A.jpeg
There are some people that do, and some that do not set limiters for the mid/high cabs. The reason people don't is it's very easy to hear when your mids/highs are distorting, it sounds like shit. Where, the distortion in the subs is much more subtle, nearly unnoticeable when the full system is playing. So. that's why many don't limit their tops. Don't really need to.

It's a little difficult to tell what you're doing or not doing from the description you've provided. The sentence structure is also difficult to decipher. I'm guessing you're using speech to text. If you could be a little more specific about the methods you've tried and the results you're seeing, it would be easier to help out. Short of that, I'll try to clarify what I said before.

If you really want to limit the tops and there isn't an option to disable the High Pass filter, or it's not obvious how to do it, just set the high pass for 10 or so HZ below your test sine wave frequency. If your test tone is 60Hz, set the High Pass Filter for 50Hz. The reason for this is, many filters are already rolling off at the set frequency. The Linkwitz-Riley, for instance, is -3dB at the designated cutoff frequency. So, if it's set for 125Hz, it is actually rolling off before that, effecting your test if your test frequency is too close to your cutoff frequency.

Alternatively, you can try using a different test sine wave frequency that's above/higher than your High Pass Frequency. The 600Hz or 1000Hz I mentioned before is the frequency of the sine wave test tone to try, not a crossover frequency. If your High Pass is 125Hz, you can leave it there and run a 600Hz Sine Wave test tone.
Yeah sorry my typing is crap and I don’t review what I wrote and auto correct takes over. Thanks for your helpful information, it’s a huge learning curve to learn the jargon also. I’ve written instructions for running a CNC laser before and the instructions for my DBX has a bit to be desired if your not already familiar with the terminology.
The crossover is very adjustable and has many slopes to select . I’ve been just going by my ears for selection.
I’ve experimented with the crossover and the equalizer, there is a lot there to take in.
My biggest enjoyment is the fact that I can have deep clean bass at such low power.
I want the same for the tops, which I’m looking hard at DR280.
My 1.9 cu.ft. Vented boxes with peavey 1508-8 HE BWX speaker and P.Audio BMD750 horns sound great to me but the DR280 may get the go ahead.
Peavey VSX 26e anyone have an opinion on its comparison to the DBX ?

Grant Bunter
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Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#86 Post by Grant Bunter »

RYNO20 wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:35 am My biggest enjoyment is the fact that I can have deep clean bass at such low power.
I want the same for the tops, which I’m looking hard at DR280.
My 1.9 cu.ft. Vented boxes with peavey 1508-8 HE BWX speaker and P.Audio BMD750 horns sound great to me but the DR280 may get the go ahead.
Peavey VSX 26e anyone have an opinion on its comparison to the DBX ?
IMHO The DR280 is to much cab for your needs.
You don't want to much mains and have to dial them down if you're only building one sub.
The same could be said for DR250's even.

The Peavey unit won't be any easier to use me thinks, and it only has PEQ, not GEQ, otherwise looks much the same.
No point in purchasing it though if you have a driverack...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

RYNO20
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:42 pm
Location: Albany, Illinois

Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#87 Post by RYNO20 »

Grant Bunter wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 2:49 pm
RYNO20 wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:35 am My biggest enjoyment is the fact that I can have deep clean bass at such low power.
I want the same for the tops, which I’m looking hard at DR280.
My 1.9 cu.ft. Vented boxes with peavey 1508-8 HE BWX speaker and P.Audio BMD750 horns sound great to me but the DR280 may get the go ahead.
Peavey VSX 26e anyone have an opinion on its comparison to the DBX ?
IMHO The DR280 is to much cab for your needs.
You don't want to much mains and have to dial them down if you're only building one sub.
The same could be said for DR250's even.

The Peavey unit won't be any easier to use me thinks, and it only has PEQ, not GEQ, otherwise looks much the same.
No point in purchasing it though if you have a driverack...
Oh I can see V coupling another T-48 in the summer. Yes I have zero experience for any of this and would like any and all feedback. My experiments are my only telltale.
Last night I put the BMD750’s on the PV-1500 and put the 1508-8 HE BWX on the IPR2 3000 , wow it worked.
Sounds great, I thought that only 430 watts per channel wouldn’t work for the 600 watt 1508’s.only listened to about 95 DbA.
So yeah I like the idea of DR280 cause they have 12 inch but I’m listening.
Room is 1900 sq ft with 13 ft ceiling, 80% time it’s just normal (lol) volume.
Can I build a stage over the V-coupled T-48?

Anyone have information for building a wood lense for a 2” driver instead of using the plastic 10x18 I have?
I’ve looked at the ones in BFM plans they are for small drivers, will the angles - tapers be the same?
Vertical displayed horns better ?
My upper cabs are 10 degrees tilted forward— till I make a better wall mount.

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 8301
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#88 Post by Bruce Weldy »

RYNO20 wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:56 am
So yeah I like the idea of DR280 cause they have 12 inch but I’m listening.
If you like 12s, build OTop 12s. Two of those with the 1.2hz crossover and the compression drivers are all you need for that small of a space.

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

RYNO20
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:42 pm
Location: Albany, Illinois

Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#89 Post by RYNO20 »

Bruce Weldy wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:26 am
RYNO20 wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:56 am
So yeah I like the idea of DR280 cause they have 12 inch but I’m listening.
If you like 12s, build OTop 12s. Two of those with the 1.2hz crossover and the compression drivers are all you need for that small of a space.
Thanks will look at that also

jimbo7
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Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:45 am
Location: St. Louis

Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#90 Post by jimbo7 »

Bruce Weldy wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:26 amIf you like 12s, build OTop 12s. Two of those with the 1.2hz crossover and the compression drivers are all you need for that small of a space.
I agree. My OT12's are flat-array tweets, but they're more than enough for the job. Have you looked at the OT8 or SLA Pro?
BFM builds:
XF212
T24 BP102 24"
2x SLA's 6-5" mids, 9- gt-302's
2x AT 14" MCM 55-2421
TrT 5" MCM 55-2421
AT 18" JBL GTO804
2x OT12 flat array
2x SLA Pro 2-Alpha 6's 2-Goldwoods
2x T39 24" 3012lf
Simplex 10 BP102

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