Simplexx 212 power handling

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scorpiomoon75
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Simplexx 212 power handling

#1 Post by scorpiomoon75 »

Hello
I finished my simplexx 212 4ohm with 3012HO's without tweeters and currently looking for a new amp.
What is the mechanical power handling of the 212? On another thread i think Bill suggesting it could handle about 700 watts?

I was looking at getting a Mesa subway +DI preamp with either a crown xls 1502 [525 watts@ohms], 2002 [650 watts@4ohms] or 2502 [775 watts@4ohms] running single channel, I dont plan on bridging. Would the 2502 be pushing me into area whith little margin for error accidental or deliberate? The price difference between these amps isnt as much as replacing blown speakers. So maybe the 1502 will be enough?
I had a more detailed question but i saved it to drafts and it was lost.

Thanks

Bruce Weldy
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Re: Simplexx 212 power handling

#2 Post by Bruce Weldy »

scorpiomoon75 wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 12:34 pm Hello
I finished my simplexx 212 4ohm with 3012HO's without tweeters and currently looking for a new amp.
What is the mechanical power handling of the 212? On another thread i think Bill suggesting it could handle about 700 watts?

I was looking at getting a Mesa subway +DI preamp with either a crown xls 1502 [525 watts@ohms], 2002 [650 watts@4ohms] or 2502 [775 watts@4ohms] running single channel, I dont plan on bridging. Would the 2502 be pushing me into area whith little margin for error accidental or deliberate? The price difference between these amps isnt as much as replacing blown speakers. So maybe the 1502 will be enough?
I had a more detailed question but i saved it to drafts and it was lost.

Thanks
Honestly, it all depends on how you run the preamp. If you dime the bass, then the speakers will probably fart out at 100 watts. Remember, the lower the note (along with added harmonics from the Tone controls) determines how much the speaker moves and approaches xmax. How loud do you need to go?

Since it's a direct radiator cab, you'll hear it hitting its limit. The 1502 should be more than enough to drive that rig. If you are trying to wring out every last db, then build one more 212 to sit on top of that one.

6 - T39 3012LF
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"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Simplexx 212 power handling

#3 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

It will take at least 700 watts mechanically. I doubt you'd ever put more than half that into it before your band mates sent you packing.

scorpiomoon75
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Re: Simplexx 212 power handling

#4 Post by scorpiomoon75 »

Hey Bruce
thanks for the reply, I am currently using an old hartke ha 2000 which is 200 watts and its very loud. I was thinking of building the tweetered version at some stage later on, but dont think i need to, this cab is more than loud enough. But building the tweetered version would be for better dispersion and extra highs, not so much more volume.
Just curious, as most of the new bass amps are all 800 to 1200 watts.

scorpiomoon75
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Re: Simplexx 212 power handling

#5 Post by scorpiomoon75 »

Thanks Bill
Using the HA 2000 with an 8 ohm 410 was always too load for bandmates... The simplexx is on another level..even when i think its at a low volume..i get this deep brain thrombosis.
With my old can i could never get good volume tapping so i never pursued it. Since lockdown i have been improving my tapping because i can get an awesome response with the simplex...

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Simplexx 212 power handling

#6 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

scorpiomoon75 wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 1:24 pm most of the new bass amps are all 800 to 1200 watts.
Only in their advertising. Pretty much all of them play fast and loose with the power ratings on Class D amps. They might be able to put out their rated power if they had power supplies that allowed it, but by and large they don't.

scorpiomoon75
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Re: Simplexx 212 power handling

#7 Post by scorpiomoon75 »

That was the reason for my question, i went amp shopping last year and tried the warwick 600 and 1000 watt amps and they were very low volume. The hartke tx600 was even lower volume, the hartke Ha 3500 sitting on of it was way louder and had more depth. However i tried out the wayne jones WJBA2 500 watt which is class D and that was beautiful, i dont know if it was loud as i didnt turn it up to much but if heaven exists thats the amp they give you when you get there.

So in regard to say a company like crown and the XLS series, would their ratings be fairly accurate?
I noticed in forums people bridging them at huge wattge levels?

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Simplexx 212 power handling

#8 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

Crown and other PA companies tend to be more honest. People who bridge by and large have no idea what bridging is, or why they probably shouldn't be doing it. viewtopic.php?f=10&t=19292

tallevan
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Re: Simplexx 212 power handling

#9 Post by tallevan »

I have a Crown XLS 1502 that I use for loud bass gigs.
I like it. It has no particular character, just puts out what you put in, but at very high volume.
It's Chinese-made, not exactly tank-like but very light and shallow.
Has pretty good DSP, high pass and low pass filters if you want them.

in my shallow 4u rack (aimed at DJs) with a Demeter preamp it's light for a rack, but waaay heavier than my Markbass LMK head.

I usually only use it when I've lost all respect for human life. It's really loud.

scorpiomoon75
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Re: Simplexx 212 power handling

#10 Post by scorpiomoon75 »

Thanks for the link. I spent the last 2 weeks reading threads on bass forums, bridging, headroom, avoiding clipping etc. I dont think i saw a post mentioning voltage swing.
I read one of your responses in regard to signal to noise ratio. For example the crown xls 1502 has a s/n ratio of 103db and say a particular bass amp has a s/n ratio of -80 db, when i connect a preamp to a power amp is the s/n ration worsened and i would end up with a s/n ratio of something around -80db anyway. Your post was obviously technical.
When i used lots or pedals i had lots of noise, now i just have one multieffects pedal and its much quieter.

scorpiomoon75
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Re: Simplexx 212 power handling

#11 Post by scorpiomoon75 »

tallevan wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:12 pm I have a Crown XLS 1502 that I use for loud bass gigs.
I like it. It has no particular character, just puts out what you put in, but at very high volume.
It's Chinese-made, not exactly tank-like but very light and shallow.
Has pretty good DSP, high pass and low pass filters if you want them.

in my shallow 4u rack (aimed at DJs) with a Demeter preamp it's light for a rack, but waaay heavier than my Markbass LMK head.

I usually only use it when I've lost all respect for human life. It's really loud.
Hey tallevan

Thanks for the relpy, did you use the crown in y input mode with a cab on each channel?
yeah, the high pass filter is of interest, the dsp on the crown looks simple and intutive for bass needs.
The crown is still abbout 8 kg lighter than my old amp and half the depth.

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Simplexx 212 power handling

#12 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

scorpiomoon75 wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:40 pm I dont think i saw a post mentioning voltage swing.
That's how you tell the difference between a site that mainly relies on subjective opinion versus objective engineering science.
the crown xls 1502 has a s/n ratio of 103db and say a particular bass amp has a s/n ratio of -80 db, when i connect a preamp to a power amp is the s/n ration worsened and i would end up with a s/n ratio of something around -80db anyway.
The S/N of a bass amp is the combined result of the pre and power amps. The pre-amp will usually have better, often much better, S/N than the power amp. Very few bass amps have S/N comparable to good PA power amps.

Please post a review of your S212, there aren't many and lots of guys would be interested.

scorpiomoon75
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Re: Simplexx 212 power handling

#13 Post by scorpiomoon75 »

"That's how you tell the difference between a site that mainly relies on subjective opinion versus objective engineering science."
True
I will post a review, i took a lot of pics during the building process so ill post a build thread of sorts, as i found it very helpful to see pictures myself.

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