Simplex for Guitar FRFR use with Celestion F12-X200
Simplex for Guitar FRFR use with Celestion F12-X200
Hello,
I bought the new Celestion F12-X200 FRFR speaker, which is a coaxial speaker but constructed as a guitar speaker rather then as a PA speaker:
https://celestion.com/product/200/f12x200/
I have it built into an old open back cabinet I still had, but it sounds only good with the volume turned up.
And the cab or speaker rattles...
At low volume, it's lacking bass response and sounds "thin".
Would the Simplex wedge be a good fit for this speaker ?
Could I use it both as a wedge and as a cab by putting it on the side ?
I was looking at a ported cabinet/wedge from Montage but want to build something myself (have built an XF212 with Celestion Redbacks and had good results with that).
But now I want to switch to FRFR as I have a modeler (more freedom in sound with IRs, smaller cab and lighter weight).
This is the cabinet I was looking at:
https://www.lean-business.co.uk/eshop/m ... nglj2ligv1
I like that it can be used as a cab, as a wedge and even pool mounted.
I bought the new Celestion F12-X200 FRFR speaker, which is a coaxial speaker but constructed as a guitar speaker rather then as a PA speaker:
https://celestion.com/product/200/f12x200/
I have it built into an old open back cabinet I still had, but it sounds only good with the volume turned up.
And the cab or speaker rattles...
At low volume, it's lacking bass response and sounds "thin".
Would the Simplex wedge be a good fit for this speaker ?
Could I use it both as a wedge and as a cab by putting it on the side ?
I was looking at a ported cabinet/wedge from Montage but want to build something myself (have built an XF212 with Celestion Redbacks and had good results with that).
But now I want to switch to FRFR as I have a modeler (more freedom in sound with IRs, smaller cab and lighter weight).
This is the cabinet I was looking at:
https://www.lean-business.co.uk/eshop/m ... nglj2ligv1
I like that it can be used as a cab, as a wedge and even pool mounted.
- Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Simplex for Guitar FRFR use with Celestion F12-X200
There are no T/S specs for that driver, nor any usable spec range for that cabinet, so no definitive answer is possible.
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Re: Simplex for Guitar FRFR use with Celestion F12-X200
Since you already have the cab, why not just close the back and see what happens. It should help the low end and might be all you need to do ..... beats the heck out of that expensive cabinet that may not work any better.
6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210
"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."
Re: Simplex for Guitar FRFR use with Celestion F12-X200
Did that, even more rattling... Really unusable in that cab.
Its an old Marshall 8080 valvestate from which I removed the amplifier part, but the metal casing of the amplifier part is still in the cabinet.
Perhaps I'll put it in the XF212, then at least I will know if it is the speaker itself that rattles....
Its an old Marshall 8080 valvestate from which I removed the amplifier part, but the metal casing of the amplifier part is still in the cabinet.
Perhaps I'll put it in the XF212, then at least I will know if it is the speaker itself that rattles....
Re: Simplex for Guitar FRFR use with Celestion F12-X200
Update: it was the speaker casket (the white cap on the back) that was rattling.
Celestion is going to pickup the speaker and investigate.
The speaker also will not fit the XF212, it is longer than a regular speaker.
About 4-5 cm deeper than my Celestion REbacks that I have in the XF212.
Celestion is going to pickup the speaker and investigate.
The speaker also will not fit the XF212, it is longer than a regular speaker.
About 4-5 cm deeper than my Celestion REbacks that I have in the XF212.
Re: Simplex for Guitar FRFR use with Celestion F12-X200
Still would like to know if the Simplex WEdge would be a good fit for this speaker!
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- Posts: 8318
- Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
- Location: New Braunfels, TX
Re: Simplex for Guitar FRFR use with Celestion F12-X200
As Bill said earlier.....with no specs, there is no way to compare it to the recommended drivers to see if it would perform. But, for what you want it for - it should be fine.
6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210
"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."
- Bill Fitzmaurice
- Site Admin
- Posts: 28646
- Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 5:59 pm
Re: Simplex for Guitar FRFR use with Celestion F12-X200
Ask Celestion for the T/S specs.
Re: Simplex for Guitar FRFR use with Celestion F12-X200
Sorry Bill, didn't understand the first time what you meant with T/S and had to look it up.
Sent a mail to Dr Decibel (Celestion) to ask for the Thiele/Small parameters, let's see if we get any reply....
Sent a mail to Dr Decibel (Celestion) to ask for the Thiele/Small parameters, let's see if we get any reply....
Re: Simplex for Guitar FRFR use with Celestion F12-X200
Hi, its been a long while, but I have the Thiele parameters now for the Celestion F12-X200.
I have attached them.
Celestion itself recommends a bass-reflex cabinet and provides a plan here:
https://celestion.com/speakerworld/irs/ ... et_Design/
I have tried the F12-X200 in already this cabinet:
https://www.lean-business.co.uk/eshop/m ... -2957.html
For music it sound great, but any of my guitar presets sounds "boxy", don't know how else to describe.
It's as if the speaker/cabinet is placed in a large box.
So I'm again looking to build something myself, either form the plan from Celestion or from one of the designs from Bill (as I'm quite happy with my XF212).
That could be a simplex or an XF212 with larger dimensions.
Hoping you can make a recommendation based on the Thiele parameters !
I have attached them.
Celestion itself recommends a bass-reflex cabinet and provides a plan here:
https://celestion.com/speakerworld/irs/ ... et_Design/
I have tried the F12-X200 in already this cabinet:
https://www.lean-business.co.uk/eshop/m ... -2957.html
For music it sound great, but any of my guitar presets sounds "boxy", don't know how else to describe.
It's as if the speaker/cabinet is placed in a large box.
So I'm again looking to build something myself, either form the plan from Celestion or from one of the designs from Bill (as I'm quite happy with my XF212).
That could be a simplex or an XF212 with larger dimensions.
Hoping you can make a recommendation based on the Thiele parameters !
Re: Simplex for Guitar FRFR use with Celestion F12-X200
I have an PWR-ICE125 from minidsp to drive the speaker, want to build that into the cabinet:
https://www.minidsp.com/products/plate- ... pwr-ice125
https://www.minidsp.com/products/plate- ... pwr-ice125
- Bill Fitzmaurice
- Site Admin
- Posts: 28646
- Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 5:59 pm
Re: Simplex for Guitar FRFR use with Celestion F12-X200
That driver is totally unsuited for a ported cab. Why Celestion recommends it I can't understand. It would work pretty well in a sealed Simplexx Wedge. If it turns out to be boomy totally fill the cab with polyester pillow stuffing.
Re: Simplex for Guitar FRFR use with Celestion F12-X200
Thx Bill!
May I ask what is the reason why it is unsuitable for a ported cabinet ?
And before I order...
Your site doesn't mention a sealed design for the Simplexx Wedge, it does mention this for other Simplexx designs.
Is a sealed version included in the Simplex Wedge plan or should I just build it with a full baffle (instead of cutting the corners) ?
May I ask what is the reason why it is unsuitable for a ported cabinet ?
And before I order...
Your site doesn't mention a sealed design for the Simplexx Wedge, it does mention this for other Simplexx designs.
Is a sealed version included in the Simplex Wedge plan or should I just build it with a full baffle (instead of cutting the corners) ?
- Bill Fitzmaurice
- Site Admin
- Posts: 28646
- Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 5:59 pm
Re: Simplex for Guitar FRFR use with Celestion F12-X200
The Qts of .77 is only appropriate for a sealed or open back cab, not ported. The Simplexx Wedges are optimized for use with Eminence coaxial drivers, which work best in ported enclosures. To make one sealed omit the ports.
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Re: Simplex for Guitar FRFR use with Celestion F12-X200
Said every guitar player anyone has ever done sound for .... with their 4x12 .... in a coffee house ....
Built:
17" width 10" driver Autotuba
2 x 29" width dual Lab12 Tuba60
6 x DR250 2510/asd1001
In progress:
2 x DR250 2510/asd1001
For best results, point the loud end of the array towards the audience
17" width 10" driver Autotuba
2 x 29" width dual Lab12 Tuba60
6 x DR250 2510/asd1001
In progress:
2 x DR250 2510/asd1001
For best results, point the loud end of the array towards the audience