why dont we have better cooled speakers? (fins, liquid) also speaker temp indicators??

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infrasound
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why dont we have better cooled speakers? (fins, liquid) also speaker temp indicators??

#1 Post by infrasound »

I remember reading years back about some arguments from the 12pi guy with his finned design extracting more power out of LAB12 drivers and thinking his arguments actually made alot of sense... even if say Bill's solution is to suggest more cabs, I can't think of many downsides where extra cone cooling would ever be a bad thing. Especially since thermal limiting by definition can be dissipated some just like it is in computer graphics cards for instance.

It also made me wonder why there arent water cooled speakers... well okay freezing in the van would suck, but oil then, or another liquid. Just a heat transfer fluid and a thermosiphon to limit overheating. Adds complexity, yes can leak, yes yes... but still I cant think of ever seeing it really done? At least better fins would make sense if not liquid cooling?

With sinewave bass and EDM and the rest of it i'm surprised drivers arent made with more attention to this.


And for that matter why not simply put a thermal sensor in speakers that you could cue the PA guy things are running a little hot so he could lower the power before it gets to the temperatures that damage things? I'm sure I could slap my own on the back of the magnet but i'm not sure thats where the heat either ends up or causes any damage...

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: why dont we have better cooled speakers? (fins, liquid) also speaker temp indicators??

#2 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

infrasound wrote:I remember reading years back about some arguments from the 12pi guy with his finned design extracting more power out of LAB12 drivers and thinking his arguments actually made alot of sense...
They made sense if you stuff the driver into a chamber that's too small and try to extract every last dB you possibly can out of it. Otherwise, no.

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Re: why dont we have better cooled speakers? (fins, liquid) also speaker temp indicators??

#3 Post by Grant Bunter »

The driver itself is one thing, the cabinet another.
The thermal coefficient of (in our case) ply is the limiting factor in dissipating heat build up.
There has been some discussion about this at times here in the forum, including aluminium heatsinks on part of the chamber.

Since the ability to dissipate heat through ply is a constant, other things can be done to minimise heat build up. More cabs means you push each driver less for the same (or more) output, reducing the heat generated.
And maintaining higher impedance loads on amps means less output in terms of amperage from the amplifier.

Sure, you could employ other cooling methods, but at least in Bill's designs, number one priority is absolutely leakproof joints. If you can manage that and add cooling, go for it...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

infrasound
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Re: why dont we have better cooled speakers? (fins, liquid) also speaker temp indicators??

#4 Post by infrasound »

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote:
infrasound wrote:I remember reading years back about some arguments from the 12pi guy with his finned design extracting more power out of LAB12 drivers and thinking his arguments actually made alot of sense...
They made sense if you stuff the driver into a chamber that's too small and try to extract every last dB you possibly can out of it. Otherwise, no.
Good point! I'm starting to see your logic.

Sort of like those Danley subs which get incredible output and sensitivity, out of incredibly heavy 300-600lb monoliths of sound costing many thousands of dollars. It's diminishing returns to go past (x) watts per cabinet or to cut the pack space in half or do things adding complexity, failure points, or pushing to the ragged edge of performance. Keep It Simple, Stupid! :)


That said, I think simply having a speaker temp indicator could be great. :) Especially if you are DJ-ing in 100 degree weather. One extra warning point just before risk.

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DJPhatman
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Re: why dont we have better cooled speakers? (fins, liquid) also speaker temp indicators??

#5 Post by DJPhatman »

infrasound wrote:That said, I think simply having a speaker temp indicator could be great. :) Especially if you are DJ-ing in 100 degree weather. One extra warning point just before risk.
Ask the Australian doofers if it's necessary. They regularly play in 38*C+ (100*F) heat, usually for long periods of time. You are far more likely to over-thermal an amp before the driver.
I know money often seals the deal, but seriously, quality is an investment, not an expense... Grant Bunter
Accept the fact that airtight and well-braced are more important than pretty on the inside. Bill Fitzmaurice

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Re: why dont we have better cooled speakers? (fins, liquid) also speaker temp indicators??

#6 Post by Grant Bunter »

infrasound wrote: That said, I think simply having a speaker temp indicator could be great. :) Especially if you are DJ-ing in 100 degree weather. One extra warning point just before risk.
Errr, what does it tell you?
So you know the temperature has gone up.
That only becomes a useful tool if you know at what temperature the driver fails.
And under which conditions.

Does that mean you might buy a bunch of drivers and make them fail under various conditions so you know what the temperature reading might mean?

It might impress people, "Fark me this guy monitors his cab temperatures", but it's just another thing you have to look for when you're trying to work...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

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Re: why dont we have better cooled speakers? (fins, liquid) also speaker temp indicators??

#7 Post by CoronaOperator »

Stick one of these to each of your speaker magnets and you are good to go. It will alert you on your phone that you have been playing far too long in the red on your mixer.

IDK why they don't use temp sensors, even at the top ranks of pro-audio. At Shambala music festival one year Funktion-one lost over 128 drivers on their stage and PK sound the same amount on the same weekend. In fact PK sound started designing their own speakers after that as they were using labhorns until then so they wouldn't be the company they are today without that happening.

Like Grant said, what would you do with that information? Turn down or cross your fingers? Either way if it is a paid gig you are in a bad situation if that temp spikes.
Built:
17" width 10" driver Autotuba
2 x 29" width dual Lab12 Tuba60
6 x DR250 2510/asd1001
In progress:
2 x DR250 2510/asd1001
For best results, point the loud end of the array towards the audience

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