Attention StudioLive and Soundcraft SiCompact users...

[BrentEvans]

So the Behringer board at church is on its last legs, and we'll probably be replacing it in the next few weeks. They don't want to go with SAC for this one, mainly because of the learning curve (and I agree with this decision).

Got a couple of questions that I can't find a straight answer for anywhere:

Does the SL remote app for iThings require a PC to be connected to the mixer?
Can the SL be controlled wirelessly from a laptop, and if so, can this control be simultaneous with the iThing remotes?

Same for the SiCompact... how does it play with multiple remotes?

TIA

[Razor]

Both mixers were mentioned in this thread: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f203/what ... nd-900979/

Sounds like the SL does iPhone/iPad remote better. But I haven't used either console myself.

[James R]

The StudioLive console has a firewire which hooks to a laptop with the control software installed.
You hook up a wireless router and create your own network for a Ipad, unless you're running a Mac then no
router needed. I love mine

[BrentEvans]

The StudioLive console has a firewire which hooks to a laptop with the control software installed.
You hook up a wireless router and create your own network for a Ipad, unless you're running a Mac then no
router needed. I love mine

Can you use the VSL software through the network, or do you have to use some kind of desktop sharing (VNC, RDP, etc)? Having multiple laptop remotes is an item of consideration, becasue we all currently have laptops, but no iPads.

[Bruce Weldy]

The StudioLive console has a firewire which hooks to a laptop with the control software installed.
You hook up a wireless router and create your own network for a Ipad, unless you're running a Mac then no
router needed. I love mine

Can you use the VSL software through the network, or do you have to use some kind of desktop sharing (VNC, RDP, etc)? Having multiple laptop remotes is an item of consideration, becasue we all currently have laptops, but no iPads.

Use one iPad for FOH, then you can use old iPhones or iPods that you pick up cheap for the monitor mixes. It just requires one laptop and one router (or no router if you use a Mac).

You don't even need to activate the iPhones because you're just using them as a wireless device - no plan needed, so it can be really cheap.

[BrentEvans]

Use one iPad for FOH, then you can use old iPhones or iPods that you pick up cheap for the monitor mixes. It just requires one laptop and one router (or no router if you use a Mac).

FOH will be on the mixer itself... the FOH guy isn't computer savvy. In fact, the FOH PC may even end up in another room, for lack of space in the current sound cabinet (I have doubts that the 24.4.2 will even fit in there).

The trick is that I need to be able to manipulate the mix on something other than a touch screen as I play piano... I'm pretty good at doing this in SAC Remote on my laptop sitting on the tray of the Piano, because of the left-right-up-down functionality. I was hoping VSL allowed for internal network connectivity so I wouldn't have to RDP into the FOH PC.

[Bruce Weldy]

FOH will be on the mixer itself... the FOH guy isn't computer savvy. In fact, the FOH PC may even end up in another room, for lack of space in the current sound cabinet (I have doubts that the 24.4.2 will even fit in there).

Remember with firewire, Presonus officially says 12 feet is the max distance from the board to the PC. (I've used a 15 footer with no problem....)

The trick is that I need to be able to manipulate the mix on something other than a touch screen as I play piano... I'm pretty good at doing this in SAC Remote on my laptop sitting on the tray of the Piano, because of the left-right-up-down functionality. I was hoping VSL allowed for internal network connectivity so I wouldn't have to RDP into the FOH PC.

oooooohhhhh....the ol' RDP into the XYZ thru the DKE.....

I was good with all the acronyms except for RDP...don't know that one. I can tell you though - the iPad is very easy to control with one finger. And they make iPad holders that attach to mic stands, etc.....

If you do go with the StudioLive - be sure and try/use the channel presets. They are really good and can be a godsend to a newbie at FOH....although I'm sure you'll set it up, save it, and leave it.

[James R]

FOH will be on the mixer itself... the FOH guy isn't computer savvy. In fact, the FOH PC may even end up in another room, for lack of space in the current sound cabinet (I have doubts that the 24.4.2 will even fit in there).

Remember with firewire, Presonus officially says 12 feet is the max distance from the board to the PC. (I've used a 15 footer with no problem....)

The trick is that I need to be able to manipulate the mix on something other than a touch screen as I play piano... I'm pretty good at doing this in SAC Remote on my laptop sitting on the tray of the Piano, because of the left-right-up-down functionality. I was hoping VSL allowed for internal network connectivity so I wouldn't have to RDP into the FOH PC.

oooooohhhhh....the ol' RDP into the XYZ thru the DKE.....

I was good with all the acronyms except for RDP...don't know that one. I can tell you though - the iPad is very easy to control with one finger. And they make iPad holders that attach to mic stands, etc.....

If you do go with the StudioLive - be sure and try/use the channel presets. They are really good and can be a godsend to a newbie at FOH....although I'm sure you'll set it up, save it, and leave it.

Don't forget the virtual soundcheck made possible with the enclosed Capture software, I've used it makes for short soundchecks. The Ipad is easy to use with the StudioLive enable the naming in the setup on the laptop and you have your tape strip for channels and Auxes and subgroups

[Rick Lee]

Brent, our church has given me the ok to put together a sound system so we're going the SL route too. I even got to suggest a budget and they're letting me get a keyboard and drumset! I lead from the keys also so this conversation holds my interest. I don't particularly want to add to Apple's profits; even though we have a couple of competent sound guys I'm curious how to control the monitor mix at the keys. I'm going the 16.0.2 route unless I can get a drumset under budget. I had talked a little bit about going SAC but kinda overkill for us. And a little over a $1000 for all the bells and whistles of the Presonus is pretty cool to me!

[Bruce Weldy]

Brent, our church has given me the ok to put together a sound system so we're going the SL route too. I even got to suggest a budget and they're letting me get a keyboard and drumset! I lead from the keys also so this conversation holds my interest. I don't particularly want to add to Apple's profits; even though we have a couple of competent sound guys I'm curious how to control the monitor mix at the keys. I'm going the 16.0.2 route unless I can get a drumset under budget. I had talked a little bit about going SAC but kinda overkill for us. And a little over a $1000 for all the bells and whistles of the Presonus is pretty cool to me!

Remember that the 16.0.2 is only 12 xlr inputs. The 16.4.2 is 16. Monitor mix can be controlled at the mixer, at the laptop, with an iPad, or with an iPhone/iPod.

But, I got to ask both of you. Why so much concern over changing monitor mixes on the fly in a static situation like a church? With the ability to save a scene (which includes monitor mixes), once you get it set - it will stay that way. Have a scene just for your particular service, save it, then return the board to another generic scene for the rest of the week's activities, then recall it before you play. There shouldn't be the need for ongoing changes in the monitor mix - get it right, save it, and set up and performance should be a breeze.

I use my 16.4.2 to run sound on a rock band's system as well as my own BFM....last night, new venue outside - recalled their last gig from a couple of weeks ago and it was instant sound check. Brought up the faders and there was only a couple of minor changes.

I really believe that once you get it dialed in, especially with it staying in one spot, you'll have less and less need for changing things on the fly.......but, I can understand wanting the control just in case.

[BrentEvans]

I was good with all the acronyms except for RDP...don't know that one. I can tell you though - the iPad is very easy to control with one finger. And they make iPad holders that attach to mic stands, etc.....

That would be Remote Desktop Protocol, Microsoft's version of VNC.

As for iPad... I don't believe the church should give money to the Devil. Actually... they may get an iPad, but it wouldn't be dedicated to me.

But, I got to ask both of you. Why so much concern over changing monitor mixes on the fly in a static situation like a church? With the ability to save a scene (which includes monitor mixes), once you get it set - it will stay that way. Have a scene just for your particular service, save it, then return the board to another generic scene for the rest of the week's activities, then recall it before you play. There shouldn't be the need for ongoing changes in the monitor mix - get it right, save it, and set up and performance should be a breeze.
<SNIP>
I really believe that once you get it dialed in, especially with it staying in one spot, you'll have less and less need for changing things on the fly.......but, I can understand wanting the control just in case.

Church services are far more dynamic than rock concerts. Presets just don't work effectively.. you have to be on top of the mix at all times. That's not to say riding faders, but just responding to the ebb and flow of the service. In my case, I'm not as concerned with tweaking monitor mixes as I am with actually tweaking the FOH mix. Our FOH person isn't there all the time, and honestly he isn't a great mixer, but it's hard to make these changes overnight. It's not usually wise to displace people from the jobs they've done for years "just because." My guess is that when we go to something like the SL, that shift will happen naturally and voluntarily, as part of the shift of the church from one generation to the next. I'm accustomed to (and have a good method for) mixing FOH from the piano (did it for years at my last church) so the normal reasons one wouldn't do that have been overcome.

The biggest problem is the control surface... I simply don't want to (which means that I won't) buy an iThing. It sounds like VNC or RDP will be the solution for me personally, and anyone else who wants to remote in will just have to feed the beast that is Apple.

[Razor]

Church services are far more dynamic than rock concerts. Presets just don't work effectively.. you have to be on top of the mix at all times. That's not to say riding faders, but just responding to the ebb and flow of the service.

+1

I often have services where I don't make a single monitor adjustment, but that doesn't mean they don't happen. And I would want to be able to do that quickly and easily.

The biggest problem is the control surface... I simply don't want to (which means that I won't) buy an iThing. It sounds like VNC or RDP will be the solution for me personally, and anyone else who wants to remote in will just have to feed the beast that is Apple.

While I agree about Apple products, I'd much rather use a tablet than VNC. Remote desktop control is just terrible. Especially when it comes to things like turning knobs or moving faders.

[BrentEvans]

While I agree about Apple products, I'd much rather use a tablet than VNC. Remote desktop control is just terrible. Especially when it comes to things like turning knobs or moving faders.

That depends on the network and the protocol. Most of the internet based services are a step better than miserable (TeamViewer seems to work OK for remote support, IMHO). On a gigabit LAN (even through wireless N) RDP works pretty well... but you have to have versions of Windows that support it to use it. TightVNC is also good enough for manipulating a mixer (I've used this with SAC for years).

I suppose in all that I'm spoiled by the SAC Remote program. Yes, there are a few things it doesn't do as well as working on the host, but I've only ever set the host up at FOH when it was simply convenient to do so, preferring usually to mix wirelessly on a laptop.

In any case, I don't find the touchscreen paradigm to be ergonomic for simultaneous use for a keyboardist. You have to change motor skill sets, which can be disconcerting. I also prefer to see all the channels on the screen instead of one or eight, which seems to be what is supported on on the iThings in most cases. This preference is surely bred by the use of SAC for so long... but it seems easy enough to accomplish.

[Bruce Weldy]

I worked for a church for 2+ years running FOH. I guess I was lucky. The musicians bought into listening to a "total" monitor mix - no "I need more of me". I could go away for weeks and let the volunteer run the service, when I'd come back - I might make a couple of tweaks where there had been a little mixer "drift".

As far as Apple - you've got to obey your conscience...but I don't see much difference between them and MS as far as politics and views of religion go...

I use a PC laptop with my SL and it works fine. I don't see why someone with your computer skills couldn't use some type of remote desktop program......whereas I would get the RDP caught in my BVDs and end up sounding like a POS.

[Razor]

I worked for a church for 2+ years running FOH. I guess I was lucky. The musicians bought into listening to a "total" monitor mix - no "I need more of me". I could go away for weeks and let the volunteer run the service, when I'd come back - I might make a couple of tweaks where there had been a little mixer "drift".

As far as Apple - you've got to obey your conscience...but I don't see much difference between them and MS as far as politics and views of religion go...

By the time I started mixing at my church everyone was already used to having "more me" mixes. One of the very first things I was taught was how to adjust monitors. It's never been a pain, the worship team members are pretty easy to work with. Just the occasional "more me" adjustment. Believe it or not I even get "less me, more her" requests. But it takes all of 15 seconds and everyone is happy. I don't have to worry about some untrained volunteer running a service and not knowing what to do because everyone who runs sound at my church is trained. We're all volunteers, but we all know how to adjust monitors, add or remove effects, and turn people up or down in the main mix. Haven't had very many issues.

My anti-apple views are not political or religious in nature. I just don't like that they charge way too much for their products. More than anything I don't like the fact that they're designed to be replaced within a couple of years. I have a PC that's more than 6 years old and is running strong. None of the apple products that my friends and family have purchased have lasted that long.