New Crown XTI Amps

[Lastcat]

I was searching for a few Crown XTI amps online, found a reasonable price. I posted here my results, but its seems it has cause more problems than I expected. I have since edited this post.

I at times forget, whenever I join a new forum, I have to watch out for the overall atmosphere of the forum. Ask only the right questions, until I become a seasoned member, then I can become either very helpful to others, or rant and rave, as though it would be my duty as a senior member. Many have been here for a long time, and some take offense easily. Some are very easy to deal with.

I remember being at a Guitar Builders Forum, that was mean spirited. Old crusty builders, they knew everything. And the only guitar that was perfect was their. They criticized everything and everyone. What a death hole that was.

We are stepping into "their" backyard. Nothing can be said without someone, somewhere getting offended. Then it's the usual post that rants from baby seals to a Nuclear Holocaust. Then at the end, it's the usual, "sorry for the rant" ending. Which never convinces anyone that they truly are.

Many of us come here just to learn more about Bill's Cabinets. Try to understand as much as possible. Are we perfect? Of course not. Though we are treated as we should be. Even this post, someone somewhere will be offended, though I truly and honestly wrote this with caution.

Thanks for the Warm Welcome.

LC

[el_ingeniero]

Those are very good prices. Lower than the lowest price I've ever seen. They didn't fall off the back of a truck?

[LelandCrooks]

I think I'm getting out of the amplifier business. Seriously. Those are so far below cost it's stupid.

[Greg Plouvier]

Looks more like prices for the 1000 and 2000

[Benj Ross]

Ya'know, I have done a lot of shopping around for the best price on things and I am starting to find that there are a lot of sketchy business' out there. I know it is tempting to go the cheap route, but I am finding more and more that it pays to go with a reputable company. There is such a thing as MAP (Minimum Advertised Price) and a lot of companies seem to not pay attention to this. So it begs to wonder if they are selling them so low, where is the money in it? I have a theory that my email is being sold to all kinds of people because every time I buy from a "bargain" website, I end up with twice as much spam and scam artist BS in my inbox. Furthermore, if this dealer is not playing by the rules established by the company they are buying from, do you think they will get support from that company when your stuff breaks?

Leland is one of the finest web vendors I have ever dealt with and I have no doubt he would go to bat for me with the company, and win because of his rep with them, over an issue with one of his products. He offers the best prices he can while playing by the rules. You see the same thing in contracting where I have my experience. I have walked onto my jobs that we have had for years only to find a crew of mexicans (1/2 of which I know and am friends with and 2/3 of which are illegal) doing my job. The owner says "they are so much cheaper I am going to have them do the simple stuff and you can do the details." We had to explain that they are so cheap because they don't have licenses, insurance, of green cards and if they get hurt working for him it is his liability. I have to compete with every yahoo who picks up a hammer and shovel and calls himself a contractor. They don't have the substantial overhead that we do and they can't back up their work like we can, but they sure can snag a lot of jobs from us. Everyone needs to make a living, but it's crappy when we are undercut by people who take advantage of the system and lie like dogs to do it.

Support honest business and you will be better off in the long run IMO. Save up a few more dollars and do it right.

Sorry for the rant, this is something that I deal with all the time.

Benj Ross

[Harley]

I remember being at a Guitar Builders Forum, that was mean spirited. Old crusty builders, they knew everything. And the only guitar that was perfect was their. They criticized everything and everyone. What a death hole that was.

We are stepping into "their" backyard. Nothing can be said without someone, somewhere getting offended. Then it's the usual post that rants from baby seals to a Nuclear Holocaust. Then at the end, it's the usual, "sorry for the rant" ending. Which never convinces anyone that they truly are.

Well, first of all there's a good number of bass players here, so that negates the problems in your first paragraph.

Secondly political posts are a no-no here so that deals with the 2nd paragraph.

Therefore...great place to be.

[SeisTres]

I at times forget, whenever I join a new forum, I have to watch out for the overall atmosphere of the forum.

Don't let 'em get to you man. Used to happen to me, too.But now just do like I do when I come across them: cover your ears(or in this case, eyes) and do this . That'll teach 'em

and yes, welcome.

[LelandCrooks]

Lastcat, dont think I was slamming you. Welcome to the forum. I've been in business a very long time. Had my knees cut off by vendors, mfgs, and other retailers too many times with too many brands to mention. I had a feeling when I got into the amp business it would be like outdoor power equipment all over again. And it is. You post struck a nerve, I'd just quoted amps about 4 different times over 3 days and got my ass handed to me on price. Nicely, but still didn't get the sale. I don't blame anybody for going after the best price. But the race to the bottom ultimately hurts everybody.

[Harley]

But the race to the bottom ultimately hurts everybody.

+1

[Benj Ross]

Hey Lastcat,

I hope my post was not construed as frustration towards you. You are not the bad guy here. The companies with iniquitous practices are. I re-read my post and by the end of it I had worked my self up a little so my tone was off. I truly do believe the best choice of action is to buy from a solid up and up vendor, even if it costs you more now. In the big picture you will be in better hands and better taken care of. There are times when the bargain place is the difference between having the gear to get a gig and not. We all do the best with the means that we have.

I know exactly what you mean about people being offended easily etc. I used to spend a lot of time on a bass forum where there was a lot of that. A lot of good advice and info too, but a lot of wankers going on about their trip. I guess I am a little bit of a wanker today

There is a lot less of that here and a WEALTH of knowledge. Stick around and enjoy!

Benj

[bzb]

I'm a constantly on the prowl for deals. But I've been burned by bad customer service on quite a few occasions. I haven't shopped at Wal-Mart (nor has anyone in my immediate family) for over 2 years because of crap customer service. Target now gets about a quarter of my paycheck now.

When it's a one-time kind of purchase, I'll hunt and be patient. I'm on the hunt for a good steel crank stand (probably the Global Truss 132, which I've found for $250). I'll keep looking though. When it comes to some food, clothes for the kids, and some deoderant, I'll take the convenience factor, even if it's a little more expensive.

When it comes to bits and pieces, Leland is the go-to guy for BF cabinet parts. He's taken the time to source and collect all the things you'll need for these builds from a variety of places and consolidated them down to a one-stop shop at a fair price. And if you're not the type to waste your time bargain hunting, might as well throw an amp onto your order.

I, for one, didn't see any discrepancy in your original pricing you posted in the original post. I've seen "b-stock" XTi 4000s go for $575 on ebay. "B-stock" is their little way of getting around MAP.

And as far as this forum, there's a library's worth of information on this site with the members. Most are willing to answer the same questions over and over. But it'll come with a bit of ribbing, that's for sure. I'm a bit on the fiery side in person - I'll get into yelling arguments with close friends and then we'll change the subject and laugh immediately. Bark is far worse than the bite.

[Ron K]

Lastcat; Welcome to the forums.

I'd like to throw out one word of caution when dealing with internet pricing on Pro gear. There is lots of "B" Stock merchandise out there that is being bought up by companies that have absolutely no intention of revealing their little purchasing secret.

The Crown XTIs and I-Techs fall cautiously into this category. Since they were new on the market devices they had some serious problems. Now since the XTI isn't a very expensive amp it's rash of early defects was not a great cause for concern. However the I-techs were since end users were paying top dollar for them.

Unfortunately until Crown rectified the defects (they acted quickly after they confirmed their problems but it took a bit till they were willing to acknowledge the defects). This led to a rather large supply of "B" Stock units.

Now dealers aren't stupid. If they are aware of a simple cable connector and ribbon cable fix they also know that there is little risk in selling a "B" stock item as new! If I'm a 1 time dealer buying quantity of B stock merchandise from a 3rd party I can easily sell that stuff as new and most likely get away with it since the "B" stock pricing for 1st. party vendors is quite low. It's designed to move the units quickly.

Leland can tell you better but I would venture to guess he has to buy from a Crown Distributor or Dealers Rep in his area. Not everyone is given the chance to buy up all those "B" stocks.

My best guess is those are prices on "B" stock merchandise being pawned off as new.There's some problems when guys do this. It hurts the honest dealers out there and the big Harmon Company knows that. You dont see them stepping in to stop it because they are also unloading their "B" stock which is always a bottom line move.

I personally look for competitive pricing not just low pricing.Having access to an Eminence Dealership account I find it difficult to buy retail since dealer pricing is better, not much better but better but I have to drop at least $500.00 to get free shipping. Leland knows this if he's dealing Eminence through Parts Express which we do here as well.

Were end users but we also sell complete systems and do rentals so quantity buying is OK for us.If there's something I cant get I use Leland or whoever gives me competitive pricing. If I see items for very cheap (advertised as new) a flag goes up wondering how they can sell so cheap.Knowing the dealers price structure I find it hard to believe they are on the level. If they are then there selling at a loss and the only reason I could see doing this is to unload inventory but there's better ways to take care of that problem when going out of business etc.

So if you get anything out of this visit here is a little understanding of how to do things on the up and up.Guys who do Retail need to profit if they wish to continue to be able to offer competitive pricing and services.Low balling is never productive to the community as a whole and is generally self serving. Competitive pricing makes retail more service oriented and as an end user that's very important to me. If I need help in an emergency situation as a good customer I am confident my service oriented retailer will jump through hoops to help me. Will your discounter do the same for you?

Just a piece of friendly advice from someone who's been playing this sound game for 25+ years.Service is queen and pricing is secondary as long as it not ridiculous in nature~! Hence "competitive" pricing!

I fully understand Leland's frustration.The retail game is getting increasingly harder to play.FWIW his service is outstanding! IMHO that's far more important!

[Tom O'Shea]

I'm with Leland and Ron on this. What we end users think of as "street price" is almost always the MAP. Sometimes a reputable dealer can offer you--but WON'T advertise--a somewhat better deal. If you can, check online sellers (Musicians Friend, z-zounds, etc.): their prices are going to be standard "street" prices. If someone lists prices much cheaper than that, something's wrong, and you're getting B-stock equipment or there's bigger dishonesty going on--or there's a serious mistake.

I once bought a 32-channel mixer online--it was cheaper than the same model's 24-channel version at the same dealer. They just screwed up, but they honored the price, as they'd advertised it, and changed the listing IMMEDIATELY afterwards to the correct, higher, price. So sometimes a too-good-to-be-true price is just an f-up.

Tom O'Shea