The journey begins.. 16 T60's and 12 DR280's!!

[gdougherty]

Why would you need to delay the outer row of subs? The mouths all line up with each other, and the signal is going to all the cabs at the exact same time, so they are all outputting the same freqs at the same time. I can understand if the room is large enough and you have subs at the back of the room, but why in this case? Trying to learn.

They do directly in front of the array. As you walk to the side you start to get some amount of cancellations from the differing arrival between the middle and outer cabinets. The impact will vary based on your crossover frequency and the width of the subs. I run my T48's up to about 125Hz to fill in below my OT12's so it's much more noticeable as you walk to the sides given the shorter wavelengths. The way I arrange mine gives me about 12ft between the outer cabinet openings.

[gdougherty]

Is this something I'd have to worry about with 4 T48 standing up next to each other? Not that I plan to run them that way, but thought I'd ask.

It's only a problem once the width reaches more than one wavelength. That's no issue with subs, but unavoidable with mains.

It will have some impact below a full wavelength though. Not full cancellations, but varying dips in response that could cause some frequencies to be audibly lower. Given that the impact of kick drums relies on a whole range of frequencies from 80Hz up to the 120Hz range, that can make for lackluster punch in some spots as compared to others.

[Disco-inferno]

Why would you need to delay the outer row of subs? The mouths all line up with each other, and the signal is going to all the cabs at the exact same time, so they are all outputting the same freqs at the same time. I can understand if the room is large enough and you have subs at the back of the room, but why in this case? Trying to learn.

by delaying the outer subs he creates a directional array and has less reflections from side walls and also better projection of low frequencies further back in the hall, although at the cost of some spl right in front of the subs.

[sine143]

well with a wide bass array he already has very little bass to the sides (freq dependant). delaying the sides actually *widens* the bass dispersion out front (and makes a rear node).

[hifibob]

Wow great responses I have a lot to learn still.. I would much rather have 4 more REAL subs but I wasn't sure if they would cause a problem. If not I'll make 4 more real ones, it will only take me a week to get them done so its no big deal.. I know it's over kill but I,m trying too keep the bass wall Club Therapy was known for but still couple all the subs and this was the only thing I could come up with.. You guys are are going to think I lost my mind but I might even add 2 more DR's for a total of 8!! I got serious problems

[hifibob]

I would try and install something that highlights the movement of air e.g. a small fog machine and fan laser.

That's actually a good idea.. I'll have to experiment with that. Thanks Chris!

[hifibob]

All in a line like that is just like any other line array. In this case the horizontal dispersion is tight, almost parallel lines from the row of cabs out to the audience. One benefit here (if you want to call it a real benefit ) is that you're pushing a single wavefront and lower extension is available. Think of it as being able to lowpass the T60s @ 16 Hz.

Hifibob, When you light this puppy off, remember to log on to the USGS website and see if you are showing up on their network of seismometers!

I love this site! The wealth of knowledge is endless..

Draehn the test run is going to be insane!

[miked]

Wow great responses I have a lot to learn still.. I would much rather have 4 more REAL subs but I wasn't sure if they would cause a problem. If not I'll make 4 more real ones, it will only take me a week to get them done so its no big deal.. I know it's over kill but I,m trying too keep the bass wall Club Therapy was known for but still couple all the subs and this was the only thing I could come up with.. You guys are are going to think I lost my mind but I might even add 2 more DR's for a total of 8!! I got serious problems

You know, you're already killing a butterfly with a bazooka; why not upgrade the bazooka to a 120mm Howitzer? Not that the Crown Macrotech amps you're running can't run wide open for 12 hours straight, but one advantage to adding another 4 Tubas and another 2 DRs is that you'll never even have the system halfway up, even at war volume. And let's face it; you could have the cheapest drinks, the best ambiance, the nakedest women, but what is the one thing most people remember about a club? "Man, you would not believe how EFFIN loud it is in that club! It is awesome! You gotta check it out!!!" <---and "gotta check it out" translates into money for you. You have to spend money in order to make money. That's what I keep telling my wife, but it doesn't seem to register.

[hifibob]

Wow great responses I have a lot to learn still.. I would much rather have 4 more REAL subs but I wasn't sure if they would cause a problem. If not I'll make 4 more real ones, it will only take me a week to get them done so its no big deal.. I know it's over kill but I,m trying too keep the bass wall Club Therapy was known for but still couple all the subs and this was the only thing I could come up with.. You guys are are going to think I lost my mind but I might even add 2 more DR's for a total of 8!! I got serious problems

You know, you're already killing a butterfly with a bazooka; why not upgrade the bazooka to a 120mm Howitzer? Not that the Crown Macrotech amps you're running can't run wide open for 12 hours straight, but one advantage to adding another 4 Tubas and another 2 DRs is that you'll never even have the system halfway up, even at war volume. And let's face it; you could have the cheapest drinks, the best ambiance, the nakedest women, but what is the one thing most people remember about a club? "Man, you would not believe how EFFIN loud it is in that club! It is awesome! You gotta check it out!!!" <---and "gotta check it out" translates into money for you. You have to spend money in order to make money. That's what I keep telling my wife, but it doesn't seem to register.

You're a 100% correct mike! I've been living by that philosophy for quite some time and its paid off! The sound in a club is the most important and most overlooked feature.. Not only will my sound system be able to play outrages levels when called on it will do it effortlessly, crisp and clean! It will def be the talk of North East for sure and I'll gladly give the credit to Bill!

[miked]

When (and notice I said "when") your new club becomes THE local hangout, and then when word spreads (you must advertise...but you know this already) and then when you start getting the big names and the curious investors, and they ask you "So who did the sound install?" You can tell them how you checked out Meyer and EAW and JBL and blahblah...but you decided you'd be better served by going with a proven, custom DIY design.

They'll laugh and harrumph at you...and then you can deadpan look'em in the eye and say "No...really. I built them myself. All of it." Immediately they will try to downplay all the glorious praise they heaped on the system just a few seconds ago, and you can call them out on it. Nicely, of course...over a drink...or seven. The sound does not lie, especially to those of us who know sound and what things should sound like. I.E. "one-note bass" at 110 decibels in some club is NOT "good sound."

It's just amazing that you can buy this kind of knowledge for $15 a whack. Granted, you have to be able to actually BUILD the things, but everything is laid out for you, even the passive crossovers for tops. All the hard work has been done for you. It's up to you to do the "heavy lifting" and build the things. And in YOUR case "heavy lifting" certainly applies with your battalion of T60s!

When I make it back to NYC to see my family, I am driving up to Boston, pal. I have to experience this rig in person.

[88h88]

I'm wondering just how little power this lot is actually going to need considering the amount of cabs and the fact they're silly sensitive. At some point if you find you're using 1/60th of the Macrotech's power would you consider downgrading to a dozen or so Lepai 40w amps? Y'know, for a giggle?

[miked]

LOL! Wouldn't that just be hilarious? A bunch of headphone-type amps, sitting on a bookshelf in the sound booth, all running off one 6-outlet powerstrip.
On a serious note, of course that many cabs will pull some watts, but I'd imagine the Crowns will be working at not even half capacity at war volume. I mean, just think about the kind of output he'll be getting from that many T60s, and then think about how many volts you'd need for your typical dual-18 JBL powersoak sub boxes to get that same output.

[hifibob]

When (and notice I said "when") your new club becomes THE local hangout, and then when word spreads (you must advertise...but you know this already) and then when you start getting the big names and the curious investors, and they ask you "So who did the sound install?" You can tell them how you checked out Meyer and EAW and JBL and blahblah...but you decided you'd be better served by going with a proven, custom DIY design.

They'll laugh and harrumph at you...and then you can deadpan look'em in the eye and say "No...really. I built them myself. All of it." Immediately they will try to downplay all the glorious praise they heaped on the system just a few seconds ago, and you can call them out on it. Nicely, of course...over a drink...or seven. The sound does not lie, especially to those of us who know sound and what things should sound like. I.E. "one-note bass" at 110 decibels in some club is NOT "good sound."

It's just amazing that you can buy this kind of knowledge for $15 a whack. Granted, you have to be able to actually BUILD the things, but everything is laid out for you, even the passive crossovers for tops. All the hard work has been done for you. It's up to you to do the "heavy lifting" and build the things. And in YOUR case "heavy lifting" certainly applies with your battalion of T60s!

When I make it back to NYC to see my family, I am driving up to Boston, pal. I have to experience this rig in person.

Mike this club and its system is the talk of the town right now.. I've got people in the PA business dying to hear this, and they seem genuinely excited since my resident DJ is pretty huge around my area and had made it clear this system is the shit! I definitely want to do BFM justice and give the best demo possible at our soft/industry opening.. Im confident I can get the best out of it in time but I'm going to hire Bill to put the icing on the cake I'm taking nooo chances..

Btw NYC is only 3 hours from Providence!

[hifibob]

I'm wondering just how little power this lot is actually going to need considering the amount of cabs and the fact they're silly sensitive. At some point if you find you're using 1/60th of the Macrotech's power would you consider downgrading to a dozen or so Lepai 40w amps? Y'know, for a giggle?

There's no doubt in my mind these amps wont even break a sweat lol.. I had 4 Macrotechs running off 2 20amp circuits in my garage and never popped a breaker at insane sound levels. I did however figured I could series-parallel all the cabs to gether for a safe impedance just to see what all the tops and subs could do off one macrotech..

[miked]

Oh, the club's in Providence, RI? This isn't the same club that burned down with the Great White show, I hope? Funny thing: Back in 2008 when I was visiting the folks, I drove up to Providence to visit some friends that were living there temporarily. Beautiful drive and Providence is gorgeous anytime of year. We hope to make it to NYC sometime next year. A visit to you is guaranteed.