RTA Measurement Technique for Wedgehorns

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tvent
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:29 pm
Location: Helena, AR

RTA Measurement Technique for Wedgehorns

#1 Post by tvent » Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:44 pm

What's the current philosophy on RTA'ing Wedgehorns? (WH8 & WH10)
RTA Mic close to the speaker, or at performers ear height?
My goal is to get a good "cabinet" preset to save in my DSP.

Thanks,
Tim
Built:
4 x WH10 melded
4 x WH8 melded
2 x Jack15 melded
2 x Simplex 12 w/BGH-25 for Bass
1 x Simplex Tiltback (powered PPA800DSP) for Keys
2 x SLA Pro
Bought:
6 x T39 20" 3012LF loaded

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 6747
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: RTA Measurement Technique for Wedgehorns

#2 Post by Bruce Weldy » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:09 pm

tvent wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:44 pm
What's the current philosophy on RTA'ing Wedgehorns? (WH8 & WH10)
RTA Mic close to the speaker, or at performers ear height?
My goal is to get a good "cabinet" preset to save in my DSP.

Thanks,
Tim
Put the mic where the ears are.....

Remember though that you aren't trying to get them flat or sounding great with recorded music. Monitors need to be a bit mid-rangy and not a lot of bass if you want 'em to cut through a loud band. That said, if the band is soft on stage, you can make it sound great.....but, that's not the norm.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

Grant Bunter
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Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:12 am
Location: Ilfracombe Queensland Australia
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Re: RTA Measurement Technique for Wedgehorns

#3 Post by Grant Bunter » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:31 pm

What Bruce said.

I'll go further, Wedgehorns have a pronounced bump in the low mids, it's a design response feature.
If you're going to RTA them, you need to set up a target curve...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 (melded array) with March 2012 plans. 2 more under way with CD horn
T39's: 4 x 20" BP102 , 2 x 28" 3012lf.
WH8: x 3 with melded array.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 6747
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: RTA Measurement Technique for Wedgehorns

#4 Post by Bruce Weldy » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:43 pm

And remember that no matter how good they are outside when you use the RTA and save it - it will be different inside. Most important in a really loud situation where you have to crank monitors is to get on stage and ring 'em out - find the problem frequencies and get 'em pulled back.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 6747
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: RTA Measurement Technique for Wedgehorns

#5 Post by Bruce Weldy » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:44 pm

I have all of my monitors running through a driverack.....the most important thing I get from that is not the EQ, but the Feedback Suppression.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

tvent
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:29 pm
Location: Helena, AR

Re: RTA Measurement Technique for Wedgehorns

#6 Post by tvent » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:58 pm

Bruce Weldy wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:44 pm
I have all of my monitors running through a driverack.....the most important thing I get from that is not the EQ, but the Feedback Suppression.
Thanks for the tips guys. I have Driveracks on FOH always (LOVE the Veunue 360 for it's flexibility... Wish the PA2+ wasn't such a pain to try to run mono, but it's really great for what it does and the price is nice.)

I run dedicated Feedback Suppressors on each monitor channel (DBX AFS2.)
The dedicated one gives a full 24 bands instead of the 12 in the driverack.

I've invested in DSP 4-channel amps for the monitors for the EQ (Went the QSC PLD route.)
They weren't much more than buying enough Venue360's to cover 6 monitor sends and cheaper than enough to cover 8.
I'm just scared of DSP built into amps from a point of failure perspective... but then again I still run analog mixers.

So you guys said what I already practice (RTA at the ears) so i'm glad to know i'm on the right track.
That being said, I'm very tempted to RTA the WH's to a regular PA curve. Many of our performers freak out a bit at the sound of the WH. LoL IF that becomes a goal later, would it be better to do a close RTA Mic?
Built:
4 x WH10 melded
4 x WH8 melded
2 x Jack15 melded
2 x Simplex 12 w/BGH-25 for Bass
1 x Simplex Tiltback (powered PPA800DSP) for Keys
2 x SLA Pro
Bought:
6 x T39 20" 3012LF loaded

tvent
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:29 pm
Location: Helena, AR

Re: RTA Measurement Technique for Wedgehorns

#7 Post by tvent » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:00 pm

BTW, I use the Driverack to RTA... then I try to mimic that curve as best i can in the QSC's DSP.
That's the best i can come up with, then i tailor it a bit to taste.

The WH's sound a bit weird to me when I try to EQ them to a normal PA speaker response... regardless of how tempting i eluded to it being above.
Built:
4 x WH10 melded
4 x WH8 melded
2 x Jack15 melded
2 x Simplex 12 w/BGH-25 for Bass
1 x Simplex Tiltback (powered PPA800DSP) for Keys
2 x SLA Pro
Bought:
6 x T39 20" 3012LF loaded

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 6747
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: RTA Measurement Technique for Wedgehorns

#8 Post by Bruce Weldy » Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:15 pm

tvent wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:00 pm
BTW, I use the Driverack to RTA... then I try to mimic that curve as best i can in the QSC's DSP.
That's the best i can come up with, then i tailor it a bit to taste.

The WH's sound a bit weird to me when I try to EQ them to a normal PA speaker response... regardless of how tempting i eluded to it being above.
I built 3 WH10s a few years back. As strictly a vocal monitor they were great, but as we were running all direct and putting entire band through 'em - I just couldn't ever get 'em EQed properly (and probably didn't spend enough time trying as the band wasn't liking what they were hearing and I didn't want 'em to abandon the whole direct only thing). I'm sure they could have worked, I just couldn't ever get what I needed from 'em, so I went back to my trusty Yamaha SM15Vs.....been using 'em ever since. But, I do miss the lightweight WH10s....

I sold 'em to Haysus from St. Louis and he's been using 'em for years with good results. He may have 'em for sale as I saw he was selling off some stuff a few weeks back.....if anyone is looking.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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