SethRocksYou wrote: ↑Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:07 pm
For the sake of conversation, the whole thought of using 8 conductor/4 pair (not 8 pair) came up when daydreaming got the best of me and I was planning my "big" low power system, which would have 32 channels of amplification and 32 speaker cabs. 16 T48, 8 DR200, 8 WH6.
Ooops...my bad on the 8 pair vs. 8 conductor....
Now, as to your dream system - running one channel per speaker just isn't a good way to do it in a system that big. You would want to scale the amps so that they best handle the load with as few as possible. For subs, you'd most likely get bigger amps that can handle a 4 ohm load on each channel and run two cabs on each. That way, 2 amps run 8 subs. On your tops, you could even go with an amp that handles a 2 ohm load per side and run all 8 on one amp....as long as it's powerful enough to run cool at those loads. Then there's every configuration in between to balance amp channels with speakers. Of course, you need one channel for each separate monitor send.....that's where lower powered 4 channel amps come into play.
Ultimately I've chosen to, at least for the time being, get going with a more realistic and reasonable plan of starting with 4 T39's and 4 SLAP's and see where that put's me. And really, I haven't had to use stage monitors yet. I've been successful in getting everyone on IEM's so far. But, I would like to have some anyway. I hope this hobby can grow into a side money thing and I'm sure I'll need monitors if/when that becomes a reality.
If you hire out, you'll definitely need monitors. And believe me, as you do this you'll want to keep everything as easy and un-complicated as possible to get in, get setup, and make noise as quickly and easily as possible.
Anyway, I've had many of the same thoughts and concerns, and some of the solutions I've come up with are putting 4 way switches in each monitor and also wiring in standard NL4 connectors (and 2 way switches) alongside the NL8's. That way each monitor can be switched to any of the 4 mixes and/or also be used with more usual NL4 connectors with the option to switch between 1+- or 2+- as the source.
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Wow the potential problems with that kind of set just keep springing to mind.....Besides the additional complexity of the build and wiring itself, consider that if each rotary control is not set correctly, you could have to monitors on the same mix and then have to chase down where the problem is.
Most of the time, this is done in the dark and you are out front at the board and have to hoof it back up to figure out what's wrong...or, you hire someone to help you (and you will if you start doing gigs that are bigger) and they have to learn all of the possible settings to get the monitors to work.
If you try to set up your amp rack where you can either use the NL8 or the NL4, there will be more connectors on your rack panel all wired parallel to make it all work....mixing and matching those connectors on the fly in the dark during a 20 minute turn around for the next band ..... it's bad enough trying to placate the ego-filled talent without trying to get the monitors wired correctly for these guys who moved all of your monitors as soon as they got on stage.....
I'm one to question the wisdom of "well, we've always done it that way" just like you. But, sometimes they've always done it that way because it's the best way....
On the subject of 2 conductor vs. 4 conductor, I see all of your points except... if all my tops are wired 2+- and all the subs are 1+-, then every cable is universal and can be used anywhere, for any use. The down side is, for runs that only utilize one pair, the cable is twice the weight. Although, each monitor can have an A/B switch, halving the cabling on the stage. And still, same cable works everywhere and does everything.
Wiring all of your tops to use 2+/- is a big mistake. That means you can only use your tops with your rack and your cables. What if you want to do a small acoustic gig with just tops and a small rack with an amp and an EQ? If you really want to use 4 conductor cable to hit the subs and the tops in one wire, then split the wire and terminate with two NL2s instead of one NL4. That way your tops can stay wired to 1+/-. I would wire the rack with the tops and mains split also - you can still use your 4 conductor cable just split that end also with two NL2s. That gives you all kinds of flexibility in your set up.
Even if you insist on putting all the wires in one NL4 connector, at least put an output jack on the panel where the 2+/- from the input cable is wired to the 1+/- on the output jack....that way your tops stay with 1+/-.
And all of this only really works for tops and subs if you always split them.
As far as how I plan to run the subs... clustered together and v-plated whenever possible. The last show I did was on a 200' dock. The audience span the width of the dock and out about 50 or so feet deep, off the dock. I put the subs (2 x single 18's, not BFM cabs) together in the middle. Next time I'm going to try splitting the subs in hopes of evening out the coverage from side to side and not blow out the audience in front of them as much as when I had them clustered in the middle. The sound for that show was pretty good everywhere except for right by the subs.
Definitely split the subs in that situation. I do a monthly show where we split the subs because of the width of the tops....if I were to put the subs in the middle - the first few rows would sound awful.....
I guess the answer is; whatever the venue calls for. As usual, right? Do the best we can, to do the best we can with the resources available.
Exactly. Always try to do it the best way, but understand that sometimes you have to give up a little in one area to get what you want somewhere else. I've been having to split subs more and more as the band I work with does mostly corporate events and weddings now....the venues just don't work with the subs clustered. Same reason I've done more and more gigs with an iPad instead of running a snake out front...don't like it, but you do what ya' gotta' do.
If running a 4 stack of subs with 4 conductor wire, I see 2 options I'd use:
1) Run one cable to the location daisy chain from 1 to 2, then use a 1/2 swap adapter from 2 to 3, and another regular jumper from 3 to 4.
2) Just run 2 cables, same as you would do if it were 2 conductor cable
Or, as I've mentioned before - split the pairs using some heat shrink and put an NL2 on each split. One goes to Sub 1 (sub 2 get daisy chained). The other one goes to Sub 3 (sub 4 gets daisy chained). All connectors use 1+/-. No turnaround cables, or adapters and all connectors are interchangeable. You can either split the end at the rack or just use the NL 4 with one channel to 1 and the other to 2.
)... I've got 500' of 4 conductor. I'll use that up and see where I stand on the whole thing then.
