What's to chat about?

Anything not covered elsewhere.
Message
Author
User avatar
Bill Fitzmaurice
Site Admin
Posts: 27834
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 5:59 pm

Re: What's to chat about?

#1111 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:59 pm

Look at the frequency response of an electric bass speaker, then the frequency response of a sub. The only way you get what's coming out of the sub to sound close to the same as what's coming out of the backline is with some serious reduction of the low frequency content in the PA channel, and probably some midrange boost as well. It's different with recorded material, as the necessary EQ adjustment is done in the mixdown. Even with top international touring acts the only FOH guys I've heard who get it right are either bass players or recording engineers.

User avatar
Seth
Posts: 1904
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:06 pm
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Contact:

Re: What's to chat about?

#1112 Post by Seth » Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:32 pm

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:59 pm
Look at the frequency response of an electric bass speaker, then the frequency response of a sub. The only way you get what's coming out of the sub to sound close to the same as what's coming out of the backline is with some serious reduction of the low frequency content in the PA channel, and probably some midrange boost as well. It's different with recorded material, as the necessary EQ adjustment is done in the mixdown. Even with top international touring acts the only FOH guys I've heard who get it right are either bass players or recording engineers.
I see your point. Although, I have to kinda question the logic behind the sound a bass cab creates as being the benchmark. It seems a vast majority of them are either designed to be compact or big with a lot of drivers in them... Designed to sell to the uninformed masses instead of being designed to sound accurate or good. I'm sure exceptions exist. And, "good" is certainly subjective. Much of what guitar and bass cabs lack in accurate or clean reproduction has certainly been accepted as desirable main stream tones (distortion?). Not to say having the lower register enhanced is accurate, but more to point out that, tastes differ. What it "should" sound like is highly based on what we (as individuals) have heard before and think is "normal". Isn't it? I think it's deponent on the genre too.

When I play my Ubass through my little 10" amp, it sounds good. When I played it through and SVT 8x10, it sounds good. When I plug directly into the mixer and play it through a T39 and 2x6 SLA, tuned with a 15dB bump at 45Hz... it sounds phenomenally amazing... to me. (well, my picky ass dad too) The tone is smooth (that's what I prefer, smooth clean bass) and the bottom is lusciously visceral.

I had a curiosity I'd like to play with when I get the chance. Mic the bass cab to get it's tone and highpass it like you say, 80Hz ish. But, then also DI pre cab to get a pure undistorted and/or colored signal to fill in the bottom octave to taste with High/Low band pass filters. Cab tone, clean bottom energy.

You've been doing this stuff for probably longer than I've been alive. I'd be a silly fool to not give high regard to your experience and opinion. So, I'm just thinking out loud here. I'll try high passing the bass at 80 next time I get a chance. See what I think. I highly appreciate the shared insight Bill.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 7738
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: What's to chat about?

#1113 Post by Bruce Weldy » Sun Oct 10, 2021 2:28 am

When you take the DI out of the back of an amp, always set it to pre-EQ if that's an option. Otherwise, you'll be getting the EQ he needs to make that little speaker sound good to him - which is not the same as having a PA with subs. If the DI output is only post EQ, then use a Direct box.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

Grey Owl
Posts: 212
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:38 pm
Location: New Zealand, User 1603

small guitar enclosure - What's to chat about?

#1114 Post by Grey Owl » Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:19 am

Gidday Guys & Girls,
Am seriously thinking of retiring my Mesa guitar amp as getting heavy for this old back. :cowboy:
On this forum, has anyone discussed something much lighter?
Looking through Bill's pantheon, how about a short SLA with 2 Alpha 6's no tweets. 8)
Simple handle on the top plus I just saw a cheap n cheerful amp on-line.
Perfect for jamming around with mates???
Could be lotsa fun without the weight. :feedback:
Cheers

[urlhttps://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketplace/music-i ... f=9Pc9D4G0][/url]
You have two ears and one mouth. Use them in the same ratio!!

User avatar
Bill Fitzmaurice
Site Admin
Posts: 27834
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 5:59 pm

Re: What's to chat about?

#1115 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:50 am

Last week we had a house jam with the guitar player using a Supro 5 watt tube combo loaded with an eight. It was plenty.

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 7738
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: small guitar enclosure - What's to chat about?

#1116 Post by Bruce Weldy » Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:46 am

Grey Owl wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:19 am
Gidday Guys & Girls,
Am seriously thinking of retiring my Mesa guitar amp as getting heavy for this old back.
I went through the same thing a few years ago. I got rid of my Mesa Mark IV. When the Mark V:25 came out, I grabbed one. After using it with a cab for a while (it only came as a head then), I built a cab with a neo 12 and turned it into a combo. 25 pounds all in for a 10/25 watt screamer full of Boogie magic.

It's been a great little workhorse and gets a whole lot of "what's that?" from other guitar players. In fact, the other guy in a band I was in had the same head, so I built two of 'em.
IMG_2311.JPG

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

User avatar
Strange Kevin
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 3:02 pm
Location: Scottsdale AZ

Re: What's to chat about?

#1117 Post by Strange Kevin » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:41 pm

Hi Grey!

A while back I put together something similar to what your describing and it was a lot of fun.

Check it out here - viewtopic.php?f=30&t=25730
Authorized Builder - Phoenix AZ.
Main Rig - 6 DR200s - 6 T48s (30")
SLA Pros for the smaller stuff.

Grey Owl
Posts: 212
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:38 pm
Location: New Zealand, User 1603

Re: What's to chat about?

#1118 Post by Grey Owl » Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:15 pm

Thanks Kevin,
Nice build there.
What would be the equivalent of those out of stock drivers today please?
Cheers
You have two ears and one mouth. Use them in the same ratio!!

User avatar
Seth
Posts: 1904
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:06 pm
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Contact:

Re: What's to chat about?

#1119 Post by Seth » Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:48 pm

Grey Owl wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:15 pm
Thanks Kevin,
Nice build there.
What would be the equivalent of those out of stock drivers today please?
Cheers
I'm not sure which he was referring to, but a quick search turned these up as an option... Eminence Patriot 620H. A little spendy though.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

User avatar
Strange Kevin
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 3:02 pm
Location: Scottsdale AZ

Re: What's to chat about?

#1120 Post by Strange Kevin » Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:19 pm

Yeah, the driver i used were a buyout special back in the day.
The H20s do look pretty cool, but I though the Alpha 6 drivers were great too!
Authorized Builder - Phoenix AZ.
Main Rig - 6 DR200s - 6 T48s (30")
SLA Pros for the smaller stuff.

User avatar
Seth
Posts: 1904
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:06 pm
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Contact:

Re: What's to chat about?

#1121 Post by Seth » Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:19 am

Expanding on a reply in another thread:
Rich4349 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:23 pm
Seth wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:50 pm
I watched a bunch of YouTube vids about...
NOOOOOO, not YOU, Seth! :lol: :lol: :lol: I would pay good money to see your Youtube history! lol
LOL ... Right?

My watched video history as of late hasn't been all too interesting. Some car stuff, some boat stuff, some randomness, a lot of music videos, and maybe the most interesting is a little bit on building a 2RU rackmount PC to host FX processing software for live mixing applications. Did a little research on Waves Multirack Native and also just using a basic DAW to do essentially the same thing, allowing the use of many vst plugins for live mixing.

I hadn't, until recently, delved into PC hardware or building my own PC. The learning curve is a little on the steep side for me. Learning about what attributes in PC hardware contribute to reduced digital audio signal I/O and processing latency. There's so many CPU's out there and I've only learned a smidge on the subject, but I was a little surprised that the advertised specs don't always add up to performance their advertising suggests they should. (Does that sound like any other industry to you? (cough cough; audio components industry))

It seems I should be able to build a fairly capable PC, in a 2RU case for $600-$800. I thought it would be pretty cool to have the whole deal racked with, and hardwired to the digital mixer to handle all the processing, yet access and control it over the Gig LAN via Remote Desktop on a tablet or laptop PC at FOH. To be able to use and deploy more industry standard virtual effects than I could possibly use would be awesome. But, then there's the cost of host software and the cost of all the plugins too, which aren't super spendy. But, they're not cheap either... and if you/I create a decent plugin library, it can add up to thousands quickly. That, and the fact that I would like to start doing sound for money, but haven't actually had a paying Gig yet, had me take a step back and reevaluate.

I got a little buzz from the learning process. But, when I came back down, I ultimately decided I'd start by trying it out using an old laptop and running free plugins on Reaper (inexpensive/free DAW), and just see how well it actually works out. And just how much latency is added by an inexpensive test rig compared to what they say is common with more purpose built hardware and software.

I've been an occasional user of Reaper) for a little while now. I've used it to multi track record live performances (16 tracks/channels, plus 2 Main L/R Out tracks) and to edit the recordings. But, I have not set it up to round-trip the audio back out to the mixer yet. I'll be curious what the added latency is.

For your viewing pleasure
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

User avatar
Tom Smit
Posts: 7151
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: Sarnia, Ont. Canada

Re: What's to chat about?

#1122 Post by Tom Smit » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:48 pm

Seth wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:19 am

My watched video history as of late hasn't been all too interesting. Some car stuff, some boat stuff, some randomness, a lot of music videos, and maybe the most interesting is a little bit on building a 2RU rackmount PC to host FX processing software for live mixing applications.
This reminds me of SAC https://www.rmllabs.com/MainSite/sac.html
TomS

Rich4349
Posts: 728
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:18 am
Location: Kankakee, IL

Black Friday?

#1123 Post by Rich4349 » Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:55 pm

Anyone finding any interesting Black Friday deals? None for me yet.
2 DR250s, 2 27" Lab15 T-60s, 2 30" Neo Titan 39s, 1 Autotuba...and looking for more!

User avatar
Seth
Posts: 1904
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:06 pm
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Contact:

Re: What's to chat about?

#1124 Post by Seth » Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:23 pm

Tom Smit wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:48 pm
Seth wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:19 am

My watched video history as of late hasn't been all too interesting. Some car stuff, some boat stuff, some randomness, a lot of music videos, and maybe the most interesting is a little bit on building a 2RU rackmount PC to host FX processing software for live mixing applications.
This reminds me of SAC https://www.rmllabs.com/MainSite/sac.html
I had never seen that before. It was an interesting read. Thanks Tom!
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

User avatar
Seth
Posts: 1904
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:06 pm
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Contact:

Re: Black Friday?

#1125 Post by Seth » Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:31 pm

Rich4349 wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:55 pm
Anyone finding any interesting Black Friday deals? None for me yet.
Seeing some of the people on the news over the years, I've chosen to continue camping in mountain or beach locations. :mrgreen:
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

Post Reply