What's to chat about?
Re: What's to chat about?
Just a little mention/reminder/encouragement about my intended nature of this thread... Seems there's about 15-20 or so regular contributors now-a-days, and just a guess that there's maybe 50-100 regular readers/lurkers. Consider it the regulars lounge. Let's get to know each other a little. If you've got a thought or something audio related on your mind, but it's not so pressing or important enough to create a separate thread about whatever it is... put it here.
The concept of thread jacking does not apply here. Anything goes. The floor is open to all.
The concept of thread jacking does not apply here. Anything goes. The floor is open to all.
Last edited by Seth on Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded
Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
Re: What's to chat about?
Are any of you vocalists that sing harmonies? Or, do any of you have experience mixing monitors for acts that rely on them to nail the harmonies? I'm not a singer or instrumentalist at all, and it seems the artists that I've worked with don't necessarily know what they need in their mix either to get a cohesive well balanced harmony. In rehearsal is easy, it's a living room and everyone can hear the main mix. But, it seems to fall apart a little and lose the tight harmony sound when they're outdooors and relying on their IEM's. Any mixing tips for me that may help them perform at their potential is appreciated.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded
Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
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Re: What's to chat about?
As a drummer who sings harmonies, I like mostly kick (click rather than thump) and snare in my monitor, and lead vocal.
Years of not having decent monitors has also let me be able to sing harmonies via hearing myself in FOH, so if I'm not there, I will know lol...
With others, I guess something to try is getting the balance right.
Let's face it, when you sing acoustically, you hear yourself loudest and everyone else to a lesser extent based on how far away they are.
Reproduce that in monitor mixes, and the rest is up to the singers...
Years of not having decent monitors has also let me be able to sing harmonies via hearing myself in FOH, so if I'm not there, I will know lol...
With others, I guess something to try is getting the balance right.
Let's face it, when you sing acoustically, you hear yourself loudest and everyone else to a lesser extent based on how far away they are.
Reproduce that in monitor mixes, and the rest is up to the singers...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...
Re: What's to chat about?
Thanks Grant
What I've tried in the past is to give each musician equal levels of all the singers, thinking that would give them an idea where they needed to be and at what level they needed to sing. Didn't work out as well as I'd hoped. One pulled way off his mic and the other went in hotter and the lead was pretty constant. Really, the one who backed off doesn't have the best mic technique anyways and is a little shy about singing to begin with, which could have something to do with it. However, in rehearsals, they were beautifully harmonized.
I'd just like to be able to give them what they need of themselves and each other to feel confident, to know and feel where they are at in relation to the others.
So, based on what you shared, maybe I should try giving each a little more of themselves than the others? I'm just afraid they'll hear that and naturally react by singing softer to put themselves in the background more... Which is the type of harmonies they do most, background harmonies... not too much of barber shop quartet type harmonies. Although there is one song that's that style with the lead disappearing in the harmony. Anyway, I'm willing to try anything. Whether it makes sense to me or not. I'm out of my realm in the matter.
What I've tried in the past is to give each musician equal levels of all the singers, thinking that would give them an idea where they needed to be and at what level they needed to sing. Didn't work out as well as I'd hoped. One pulled way off his mic and the other went in hotter and the lead was pretty constant. Really, the one who backed off doesn't have the best mic technique anyways and is a little shy about singing to begin with, which could have something to do with it. However, in rehearsals, they were beautifully harmonized.
I'd just like to be able to give them what they need of themselves and each other to feel confident, to know and feel where they are at in relation to the others.
So, based on what you shared, maybe I should try giving each a little more of themselves than the others? I'm just afraid they'll hear that and naturally react by singing softer to put themselves in the background more... Which is the type of harmonies they do most, background harmonies... not too much of barber shop quartet type harmonies. Although there is one song that's that style with the lead disappearing in the harmony. Anyway, I'm willing to try anything. Whether it makes sense to me or not. I'm out of my realm in the matter.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded
Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
Re: What's to chat about?
I can sing harmony, but, if I hear too much of myself my focus goes and lose touch with the others. I think that if the others are stronger in the mix, then one might sing louder. This works if there are independant mixes or if there is only one mic for the group.
TomS
Re: What's to chat about?
They are independent mixes. I've even set up stereo mixes, putting the intended singer front and center in their mix and panning the others to the left and right. Haven't had the opportunity to present that option to them yet... and the lead singer is VERY resistant to putting both earpieces in, so might not make a difference there anyway. But, yes... point is that they do get individual mixes.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded
Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
Re: What's to chat about?
Also, an update on the lumber situation... Home Depot in my area is not able to special order 15/32 Arauco and they do not have any cabinet grade options in 15/32 (1/2"), although they do have the 23/32. Pretty good looking product. Too bad it's not available in the size I need. Looks like it'll have to be birch. Oh well. I tried.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded
Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
Re: What's to chat about?
I can only find it in stock at Menards in my town. Still gotta dig through the pile for the choice cuts, thoughSethRocksYou wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:29 pm Also, an update on the lumber situation... Home Depot in my area is not able to special order 15/32 Arauco......
BFM builds:
XF212
T24 BP102 24"
2x SLA's 6-5" mids, 9- gt-302's
2x AT 14" MCM 55-2421
TrT 5" MCM 55-2421
AT 18" JBL GTO804
2x OT12 flat array
2x SLA Pro 2-Alpha 6's 2-Goldwoods
2x T39 24" 3012lf
Simplex 10 BP102
XF212
T24 BP102 24"
2x SLA's 6-5" mids, 9- gt-302's
2x AT 14" MCM 55-2421
TrT 5" MCM 55-2421
AT 18" JBL GTO804
2x OT12 flat array
2x SLA Pro 2-Alpha 6's 2-Goldwoods
2x T39 24" 3012lf
Simplex 10 BP102
Re: What's to chat about?
Just thinking out loud. Sharing the thought. Maybe you know the answers. Maybe you'll find it intriguing too.
-Equal loudness contours-
Going back to the conversation about EQing, target curves, and "flat" eq lacking bottom end... perhaps this could go towards explaining why EQ'd flat with pink noise is still a little thin on the bottom end.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour
-Equal loudness contours-
Going back to the conversation about EQing, target curves, and "flat" eq lacking bottom end... perhaps this could go towards explaining why EQ'd flat with pink noise is still a little thin on the bottom end.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded
Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
Re: What's to chat about?
Yup, that's the why because.SethRocksYou wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:57 pm.. perhaps this could go towards explaining why EQ'd flat with pink noise is still a little thin on the bottom end.
TomS
Re: What's to chat about?
It's still a little curious why even recorded content is still thin too. I wonder if it has to do with the mastering process and making a track sound good on many different platforms and compressing the heck out of it. Seems if a track is mixed to taste, nice and fat, it should sound nice and fat without having to boost the lows above flat. I must be missing a piece of the puzzle.
Carona has mentioned that when playing EDM, sometimes the bass cabs are 18-20dB hotter than the mains. Why not just record it that way if it sounds the way everyone wants to hear it?
Carona has mentioned that when playing EDM, sometimes the bass cabs are 18-20dB hotter than the mains. Why not just record it that way if it sounds the way everyone wants to hear it?
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded
Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
- Charles Jenkinson
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Re: What's to chat about?
I think the answer is implicit in the equal loudness contour graphs/charts, with how the red and blue lines (from different sets of results) are somewhat different in the lower frequencies. The curves indicate a subjective assessment of loudness, so with respect to bass, it can't all be dialled into the recording mix and suit each individual's taste.
2xJ12L (3012HO) switchable/melded
2xT30
Words&graphics - Audio&Acoustics - Hardware&DSP; 3 different paradigms.
2xT30
Words&graphics - Audio&Acoustics - Hardware&DSP; 3 different paradigms.
- Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: What's to chat about?
That. It's why receivers used to have loudness controls, which boosted bass and treble at low volume, gradually decreasing the boost as the volume control was turned up. It pretty much disappeared when the first x.1 receivers with remote controls came out, which no longer used analog volume controls that made adding a loudness control a simple job. It's now being seen again, often referred to as dynamic EQ.
Re: What's to chat about?
When speakers are being tested for frequency response, is a sine sweep used, or is it pink noise?
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded
Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
- Bill Fitzmaurice
- Site Admin
- Posts: 28620
- Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 5:59 pm
Re: What's to chat about?
It may be a sine sweep, FFT or pink noise, depending on the hardware and software used.