What's to chat about?

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SethRocksYou
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What's to chat about?

#1 Post by SethRocksYou » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:08 pm

What's been on your mind lately guys? Anything new to chat about?

I'll start; I've been learning about Dante networks. I'm curious if any of you guys use it? Or, if you don't use it for good reason, I'd like to learn your perspective too. The Dante I/O card for my mixer is a little spendy. But, is it worth it? At what point do you think it makes sense for gigging?

On one hand, many of the connections it could replace are somewhat semi-permanent connections in an amp rack and I don't see a huge benefit there for most. Although, it would allow quick and easy rerouting if it's needed, input to output anyway, if you have a scale-able system that's run routinely in different configurations. If an amp channel dies, you'd still have to physically remake an emergency connection to a good amp channel.

On the other hand, for me, I rack my gear in multiple, smaller, more manageable, 4RU rolling cases and am thinking it may be a time, trouble, and pack space saver in setup, breakdown, and transport. But, if I'm honest with myself, there's just something about it I think is cool and want it just because.

What do you think?



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Charles Jenkinson
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Re: What's to chat about?

#2 Post by Charles Jenkinson » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:56 pm

I'm demo'ing a T30 tonight at a friends home. They're looking for the ultimate in home theatre subs - I don't have one of those. They have been designing/making/experimenting with 4th order band pass subs - down to 25Hz I'm told, and have a few of them in the listening room currently. I'm not sure what differences to expect, apart from I'm HP'd at 35Hz for a starter. Going to be interesting.

On mixers; a friend has recently come by the Behringer XR18 - says it's great - just like a stage box - all the processing functionality and good clean sound.
2xJ12L (3012HO) switchable/melded
2xT30

Words&graphics - Audio&Acoustics - Hardware&DSP; 3 different paradigms.

SethRocksYou
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Re: What's to chat about?

#3 Post by SethRocksYou » Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:22 am

Hey Charles :thumbsup:
Charles Jenkinson wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:56 pm
I'm demo'ing a T30 tonight at a friends home. They're looking for the ultimate in home theatre subs - I don't have one of those. They have been designing/making/experimenting with 4th order band pass subs - down to 25Hz I'm told, and have a few of them in the listening room currently. I'm not sure what differences to expect, apart from I'm HP'd at 35Hz for a starter. Going to be interesting.
I'd like to hear how this goes and your impressions.
On mixers; a friend has recently come by the Behringer XR18 - says it's great - just like a stage box - all the processing functionality and good clean sound
I can vouch for that as well. Good clean sound, tons of built in signal processing, compact, easy to use, and fairly priced. The last time I used it, I set up my PC and an X-Touch control surface and didn't touch them after the sound check. I ended up doing all the level adjustments during the performance from my phone. It was a Club dinner followed by a single acoustic act with backing tracks. I hadn't planned to do it that way, but it worked out quite well and I was able to stay at the table with friends and family. I also like that the XR18 can USB into a PC for multi-track recording. Just so many features. It's pretty incredible.

Grant Bunter
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Re: What's to chat about?

#4 Post by Grant Bunter » Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:10 pm

I'll play lol.
In the last 12-18 months:

I've begun on a second pair of DR250's. These will be CD for HF. Bottom end is fine with 6 x T39's, but as I pushed the Master faders above -6dB I was hearing distortion in my first pair, and that needed to be addressed. It's just little bits at a time when I can get to them.

I've gone digital, for audio, and lighting.
I replaced both my analogue Soundcraft FOH and Monitor desks with a Soundcraft Si Expression 2 for 24 XLR input channels and 4 line ins as well. It's taken 2 medium/large format mixers and an FX rack out of the truck to start with.
Going from Soundcraft to Soundcraft has made the change fairly simple in terms of layout and functionality.
Perhaps the biggest change for me, going digital, is outputs. 16 (take out 3 for L,R, Mono) meaning I end up with up to 13 aux/monitor sends. Big jump compared to what I was using.
The bonus is they have doubled in price since I bought mine.
The 8 channel analogue Soundcraft is still in the truck for DJing and small jobs.
Interesting that Dante has popped up, as I would probably go Madi, and introduce a Digital stagebox. That would be less about adding more input channels, and more about eliminating my analogue multicore.

I've also retired all my incandescent lighting, Par 56's, Psycs, etc, and replaced them with DMX LED pars and wash bars of various descriptions, upgraded an old laptop just to run DMX via Freestyler and a DMX controller.
I no longer need to worry about power for lighting, finding separate circuits for enough supply etc.
I have added a little 4 channel DMX dimmer though, just in case.
No moving heads (yet?).

All in all, I've done a lot more learning...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" BP102 , 2 x 28" 3012lf.
WH8: x 3 with melded array.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

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Tom Smit
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Re: What's to chat about?

#5 Post by Tom Smit » Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:02 pm

I'm almost "Pro" now, LOL! I watched all 8 "Getting Started with Dante". It seems pretty impressive. Now I have to check out what Madi is all about (thanks Grant)(semi-sarcastic)LOL.
TomS

SethRocksYou
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Re: What's to chat about?

#6 Post by SethRocksYou » Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:59 am

Tom Smit wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:02 pm
I'm almost "Pro" now, LOL! I watched all 8 "Getting Started with Dante". It seems pretty impressive. Now I have to check out what Madi is all about (thanks Grant)(semi-sarcastic)LOL.
Cracking me up Tom. I found this to be a quick enough read on all the different audio networking options https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/audio ... explained/

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Tom Smit
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Re: What's to chat about?

#7 Post by Tom Smit » Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:31 am

Thanks for the read, Seth! It sure helps that everything is covered in one article.
TomS

Bruce Weldy
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Re: What's to chat about?

#8 Post by Bruce Weldy » Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:40 am

Sorry, but all this Dante and Madi and AVB stuff will never happen in my rig......because if it did, I'd have no reason to make all those cables I enjoy so much. :mrgreen:

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

SethRocksYou
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Re: What's to chat about?

#9 Post by SethRocksYou » Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:52 am

Bruce Weldy wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:40 am
Sorry, but all this Dante and Madi and AVB stuff will never happen in my rig......because if it did, I'd have no reason to make all those cables I enjoy so much. :mrgreen:
Hahahaha, c'mon now... still need mic cables! AND (caps to express childish excitement in my voice, eyes wide open) you can add a 1000' roll of CAT6 cable, a bulk tub of RJ45 connectors, and a fancy new connector crimper tool to your emergency supplies! :hyper:

SethRocksYou
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Re: What's to chat about?

#10 Post by SethRocksYou » Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:12 pm

Grant,

Good on you for at least getting the DR's started (haven't started mine yet) and it's cool to hear about the new lighting benefits. Lighting is something I haven't delved into yet. It looks fun though. It's sure to happen some time in my future. Right up my ally.
Grant Bunter wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:10 pm
Interesting that Dante has popped up, as I would probably go Madi, and introduce a Digital stagebox. That would be less about adding more input channels, and more about eliminating my analogue multicore.
Is it that there's a MADI stage box you're eye balling or something more specific about the technology that has you leaning toward MADI?

T_Gowan
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Re: What's to chat about?

#11 Post by T_Gowan » Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:10 pm

yea , lights have my attention these days, Bought a couple of 4bars, used laptop and ADJ My dmx software. Added 8 ADJ tri and quade pars. Take an old key borard, remove the ciruit board, matrix board that is and hook it up to momentary footswitch board to simulate key strokes, you can call up as many scenes as you have foot sitches. Caps lock buttom gives you 2 banks of presets. Scenes are programed into My DMX . Experimenting with Decade Counter and relays to flip through presets witha single key stroke. Oh my head is swimming with the possiblities LOL
DR200 x2
T24 16" x2
T39 20" x2
DCX2496
DEQ2496 x2
FBQ2496
Mackie DL1608

Grant Bunter
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Re: What's to chat about?

#12 Post by Grant Bunter » Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:12 pm

SethRocksYou wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:12 pm
Is it that there's a MADI stage box you're eye balling or something more specific about the technology that has you leaning toward MADI?
You've pretty much nailed it.

Typically, as with all modern technology, there is no one universal platform...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" BP102 , 2 x 28" 3012lf.
WH8: x 3 with melded array.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 7065
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: What's to chat about?

#13 Post by Bruce Weldy » Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:43 pm

SethRocksYou wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:52 am
you can add a 1000' roll of CAT6 cable, a bulk tub of RJ45 connectors, and a fancy new connector crimper tool
Crimper tool? That doesn't even get hot! And anyone can do it......you young whippersnappers always want to do things the easy way ....... why.... when I was younger....(insert story your grandpa told you about walking to school, working 16 hours a day in the fields, etc...).

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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Charles Jenkinson
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Location: Manchester, UK

Re: What's to chat about?

#14 Post by Charles Jenkinson » Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:14 am

SethRocksYou wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:22 am
Hey Charles :thumbsup:
Charles Jenkinson wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:56 pm
I'm demo'ing a T30 tonight at a friends home. They're looking for the ultimate in home theatre subs - I don't have one of those. They have been designing/making/experimenting with 4th order band pass subs - down to 25Hz I'm told, and have a few of them in the listening room currently. I'm not sure what differences to expect, apart from I'm HP'd at 35Hz for a starter. Going to be interesting.
I'd like to hear how this goes and your impressions.
It went well. We tried various tracks, started with music and ended with Blu-ray material.

On auto-EQ; I've never noticed the auto-EQ boosting the low end of the bands quite so much before - the PA+ auto-EQ graph was maxxed out on the bottom 5 or 6 bars (+6dB) - if anyone has a comment on that I'd be interested to hear, maybe I should be roughing out the levels better on either amp attenuators or the GEQ - it could just have been what the signal response was of the combined scenario - B&W hifi speakers and a T30.

I felt the Blu-ray material - Blade runner 2049 - was quite challenging - felt like some very low content. I was a bit worried whether it was the cab/driver or the room that was stressing out - part of the issue was getting the subwoofer signal line-out out of the AV unit - the signal felt a bit low - the desk was maxxed out, but we were nowhere near the red.

Anyway, I've just checked out the PA+ limiter setup with some 60Hz sinewave, and everything was fine with signal generator tone from an online app. The bass / low limiter was set on 10 for Easyover parameter, with a 0dB threshold, and it was holding 36volts with that setting. I also ran a sweep through the T30 with the HP setting of 35Hz and the LR24 filter which is the max slope on the PA+, and you can hear content at 20Hz, so I'd expect cabin gain with content below 35Hz if it's there in the AV audio.

All in all, worth doing. They advised they will build the tall standing home theatre tuba.
2xJ12L (3012HO) switchable/melded
2xT30

Words&graphics - Audio&Acoustics - Hardware&DSP; 3 different paradigms.

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 7065
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: What's to chat about?

#15 Post by Bruce Weldy » Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:14 am

Anytime that Auto EQ has a huge discrepancy either below or above your crossover point, adjust the gain of that section, then re-do the Auto EQ. You don't want to making up that much gain anywhere with EQ.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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