How to build Rack Panels and put together a rack

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Das Jugghead
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:08 pm
Location: Indianapolis

Re: How to build Rack Panels and put together a rack

#31 Post by Das Jugghead » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:19 am

Bruce Weldy wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:15 am
Das Jugghead wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:42 am
Hey Bruce. Yes, sorry - I meant DI as in direct boxes. I would eventually like to have another quality DI (Radial) permanently affixed to my rig. At the present moment I have ART DI boxes which are okay in rehearsals but not sure how they are viewed by sound men in terms of quality. I had a Radial stolen (hence the desire for "permanently affixed to rig" ) and will eventually have another.
Got news for ya.....sound companies don't just throw Radials out there for just anyone to stomp on and destroy. Those are for bands with riders that specify. Everyone else typically gets decent passive boxes.

And there is really no way to put a DI in your gear rack - that would mean long instrument cable runs from the artist to the DI, then back again to the amp. Not practical and induces a ton of additional noise with high-impedance unbalanced cabling.

Get some decent passive DIs - I have some Rapco boxes. Never let me down and work fine.
Ok I am a bit confused here. Back when I ran a standard amp head and cabinet I had my wireless go to the amp and cabinet. The sound man would place he DI inline between the receiver of my wireless and the input of the amp. The XLR went to the stage snake. I am not sure how my current set-up is any different other than I run my wireless to my pedal board and then to the rack which houses my preamp and power amp. Couldn't the sound man still have the DI inline between the pedal board and the input of the preamp ?

Bruce Weldy wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:15 am
Das Jugghead wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:42 am
The reason I am looking into the dampening/shock foam is because I am going to be placing the speaker cabinets on top of the rack case. This keeps my stage footprint small while also getting my speakers up higher to where the drummer and I can hear them. It seems stages are getting smaller and smaller so I am trying to keep my real estate reasonable. I was thinking foam between the speaker cabinets and the rack cabinet as well as foam lining the cabinet itself - kind of a double shell with foam in between.
Ok.....I just realized that you are talking about a bass rig, not PA. Since we were talking racks, I was figuring PA.....I'll leave it up there, since it's all valid for PA.....

So, yes you can put a rackmount DI in your rack. However, I still see no benefit to a shock-mount rack for your rig. The case isn't any stronger and the whole point of the shock-mount is to protect gear from jolts and getting banged around. Having a speaker sit on top of it does neither.
Cool - thanks

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 6673
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

QQ

#32 Post by Bruce Weldy » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:37 am

Das Jugghead wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:19 am

Ok I am a bit confused here. Back when I ran a standard amp head and cabinet I had my wireless go to the amp and cabinet. The sound man would place he DI inline between the receiver of my wireless and the input of the amp. The XLR went to the stage snake. I am not sure how my current set-up is any different other than I run my wireless to my pedal board and then to the rack which houses my preamp and power amp. Couldn't the sound man still have the DI inline between the pedal board and the input of the preamp ?
Sorry for the confusion.....as I said later in the response, I was talking about a PA rack since that's what this thread was about. I forgot that you were building a bass rack. A high-end direct box in your rack would be certainly to your advantage and the soundman. And if you have a rack panel in the back with the output clearly labeled - he'll be your friend for life.

And yes, the soundman wants to take your signal before it hits you preamp and amp settings. The settings that you put on your sound is to make your speaker cab sound good, but those settings are not necessarily (meaning never) what will sound good in the PA. I always try to get a line direct from the bass. If I can't do that and have to take a DI from the bass amp, I always try to get it switched to pre-EQ if that option is available.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

Das Jugghead
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:08 pm
Location: Indianapolis

Re: QQ

#33 Post by Das Jugghead » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:22 pm

Bruce Weldy wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:37 am
Das Jugghead wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:19 am

Ok I am a bit confused here. Back when I ran a standard amp head and cabinet I had my wireless go to the amp and cabinet. The sound man would place he DI inline between the receiver of my wireless and the input of the amp. The XLR went to the stage snake. I am not sure how my current set-up is any different other than I run my wireless to my pedal board and then to the rack which houses my preamp and power amp. Couldn't the sound man still have the DI inline between the pedal board and the input of the preamp ?
Sorry for the confusion.....as I said later in the response, I was talking about a PA rack since that's what this thread was about. I forgot that you were building a bass rack. A high-end direct box in your rack would be certainly to your advantage and the soundman. And if you have a rack panel in the back with the output clearly labeled - he'll be your friend for life.

And yes, the soundman wants to take your signal before it hits you preamp and amp settings. The settings that you put on your sound is to make your speaker cab sound good, but those settings are not necessarily (meaning never) what will sound good in the PA. I always try to get a line direct from the bass. If I can't do that and have to take a DI from the bass amp, I always try to get it switched to pre-EQ if that option is available.
Hey Bruce thanks for the clarification - I get what you meant now. With the explanation of the sound man wanting the signal prior to preamp that means in my case I would need to mount a DI on the pedal board. I have an MXR M81 Bass Preamp and wondered if you have any experience with this as a DI?

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... ass-preamp

And on the subject of of pre vs. post preamp signal I have some questions as well. Every bass player out there has "their sound" and I suppose I am no different. Is there any type of sound or effect that would be okay for FOH? For me I use a touch of compression, stereo chorus, and the occasional hint (as in a slight smudge) of dirt for effects. Most of what I do for effects comes from my fingers but the aforementioned do help to accentuate that.

Hey I wanted to say thanks again for your feedback and help - I really do appreciate the opportunity to learn I all I can.

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 6673
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: QQ

#34 Post by Bruce Weldy » Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:36 pm

Das Jugghead wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:22 pm

And on the subject of of pre vs. post preamp signal I have some questions as well. Every bass player out there has "their sound" and I suppose I am no different. Is there any type of sound or effect that would be okay for FOH? For me I use a touch of compression, stereo chorus, and the occasional hint (as in a slight smudge) of dirt for effects. Most of what I do for effects comes from my fingers but the aforementioned do help to accentuate that.

Hey I wanted to say thanks again for your feedback and help - I really do appreciate the opportunity to learn I all I can.
I guess the way I should have said it is that we want your signal in a state where it won't get changed during the show. If that means you have some pedals/preamp/etc. that stays right where you put it at sound check - fine. We just don't want a signal that will have the EQ changed during the show (twiddling knobs on the amp) to make the rig sound right (to you) on stage. Otherwise, every move you make has an effect on your sound in the PA. Most good bass heads offer a pre-EQ output via XLR.

I used to shy away from those, but I'm using them more and more as I get lazier.....and the results are usually ok. If there is a problem, we use a direct straight from the bass.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

Das Jugghead
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:08 pm
Location: Indianapolis

Re: QQ

#35 Post by Das Jugghead » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:39 pm

Bruce Weldy wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:36 pm
Das Jugghead wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:22 pm

And on the subject of of pre vs. post preamp signal I have some questions as well. Every bass player out there has "their sound" and I suppose I am no different. Is there any type of sound or effect that would be okay for FOH? For me I use a touch of compression, stereo chorus, and the occasional hint (as in a slight smudge) of dirt for effects. Most of what I do for effects comes from my fingers but the aforementioned do help to accentuate that.

Hey I wanted to say thanks again for your feedback and help - I really do appreciate the opportunity to learn I all I can.
I guess the way I should have said it is that we want your signal in a state where it won't get changed during the show. If that means you have some pedals/preamp/etc. that stays right where you put it at sound check - fine. We just don't want a signal that will have the EQ changed during the show (twiddling knobs on the amp) to make the rig sound right (to you) on stage. Otherwise, every move you make has an effect on your sound in the PA. Most good bass heads offer a pre-EQ output via XLR.

I used to shy away from those, but I'm using them more and more as I get lazier.....and the results are usually ok. If there is a problem, we use a direct straight from the bass.
Awesome - thank you so much for the explanation.

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