How Loud?

[doncolga]

How loud are most concerts and clubs? At my wedding events I keep the dance floor at about 88-90 dB A for the dancing. That seems to be loud enough...people dance and very rarely ask me to turn it up. Just curious because I've heard of some levels a lot higher than that. I try to be careful for everyone comfort but still have it loud enough to dance. Seems if my rig was much louder than that my fillings would rattle out of my head.

[Tom Smit]

I would consider that loud enough, myself. If the (sub)bass is strong/felt, then most people will be moving to the music. It should be quiet enough for non-dancers to be able to have conversations at their tables. All IMHO, of course.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

At my wedding events I keep the dance floor at about 88-90 dB A for the dancing.

Don't use 'A' weighting with music. It doesn't measure any bass. Typically a 'C' weighted measurement will read 10dB higher than 'A' if the low frequency content is well balanced. If the lows are over the top, however, you might read 95dB 'A' while the far more accurate dB 'C' reading is 115-120.

[CoronaOperator]

At our club we are around 100 - 105 dBA center of the dancefloor. Around 125 dBC for top 40 style music, 135 dBC for EDM shows with a headlining DJ. I limit the DJ's to 105 dBA, they can go as crazy as they want on the C scale.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

I limit the DJ's to 105 dBA

That can leave you vulnerable to lawsuits, unless you're only open for an hour a day:

PERMISSIBLE NOISE EXPOSURES (1)
______________________________________________________________

Duration per day, hours | Sound level dBA slow response
_____________________________________________________________

8...........................| 90
6...........................| 92
4...........................| 95
3...........................| 97
2...........................| 100
1 1/2 ....................| 102
1...........................| 105
1/2 .......................| 110
1/4 or less.............| 115
____________________________________________________________

[CoronaOperator]

I limit the DJ's to 105 dBA

That can leave you vulnerable to lawsuits, unless you're only open for an hour a day:

PERMISSIBLE NOISE EXPOSURES (1)
______________________________________________________________

Duration per day, hours | Sound level dBA slow response
_____________________________________________________________

8...........................| 90
6...........................| 92
4...........................| 95
3...........................| 97
2...........................| 100
1 1/2 ....................| 102
1...........................| 105
1/2 .......................| 110
1/4 or less.............| 115
____________________________________________________________

I'm not too worried about it, OHS only regulates employee noise exposure, not the patrons. 105 dBA is a system limit, not a suggested level to play at, unless they feel they need it. Sometimes they do need the volume as a room full of screaming drunks can overpower the music levels. The volume level drops off quickly off the dancefloor, and peak volume levels are only around 1.5-2 hours of the night. Those tables are permissible workplace exposure levels for 8 hour workdays/5 days a week/40 year career industrial noise and have little bearing on casually going to a live entertainment venue once in awhile. Our employee's workstations are all located well off the dancefloor, ears plugs are provided, and this being Canada, there hasn't been a single lawsuit for noise induced hearing loss for music venues ever. We are not any louder or quieter than any other night club in the country. We only keep the music one notch above the crowd noise, sometimes its the crowd that needs to quiet down so we can too.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

I'm not too worried about it, OHS only regulates employee noise exposure, not the patrons.

If you have someone sue you for hearing damage what will be used by their lawyers is OSHA's numbers. You and I know that it's BS, but juries don't. You can get around it if everyone has to buy a ticket to get in, and the ticket clearly indicates that the buyer assumes the risk of hearing damage and waives their right to sue. Otherwise sooner or later some ambulance chaser will get you in his sights, and even if you win you'll lose with the expense of paying a defense attorney.

[doncolga]

I limit the DJ's to 105 dBA

That can leave you vulnerable to lawsuits, unless you're only open for an hour a day:

PERMISSIBLE NOISE EXPOSURES (1)
______________________________________________________________

Duration per day, hours | Sound level dBA slow response
_____________________________________________________________

8...........................| 90
6...........................| 92
4...........................| 95
3...........................| 97
2...........................| 100
1 1/2 ....................| 102
1...........................| 105
1/2 .......................| 110
1/4 or less.............| 115
____________________________________________________________

Wow...nice to see this mentioned. This has been my guide for keeping it around 90 and for using A weighted...I'm a little paranoid about this type of thing.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

I'm a little paranoid about this type of thing.

With good reason, you can get sued for anything these days. But don't go by 'A' weighting alone. Make sure that you use 'C' weighting as well, and that it doesn't read more than 15dB more than what the 'A' does.
I had to pull a large venue's fat out of the fire when they used only 'A' weighting while the 'C' weighted readings were often 20dB higher. Complaints from neighbors up to a mile away almost shut them down, and said neighbors all had their own meters.

[CoronaOperator]

Make sure that you use 'C' weighting as well, and that it doesn't read more than 15dB more than what the 'A' does.

I think that would be very genre dependant. EDM and many newer Top 40 dance hits are very bass heavy while limiting high frequency content. They would probably measure greater than 20 dB difference between A and C directly from the source file.

[88h88]

116dBc at the back of the room with 2 OT12s and 2 T60s. Due to clarity I was asked to 'turn it up a bit' but didn't. Leaving the club without my ears ringing was a wonderful experience.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

EDM and many newer Top 40 dance hits are very bass heavy while limiting high frequency content. They would probably measure greater than 20 dB difference between A and C directly from the source file.

And that's why you need to measure with 'C' weighting. More than 120dB at the listening position is problematic. If you're using 'A' weighting you won't be aware that it's that high until, worst case, you find yourself in court defending yourself against a nuisance suit, and the plaintiff has his 'C' weighted measurements stored on his iPhone. The only way the above mentioned venue stayed in business was by my taking RTAs of every concert for three years, documenting both 'A' and 'C' levels at designated spots both within the venue and in the neighborhood, filing a report that was forwarded on to the town the following day. That cost them a bundle, which would never have happened had they taken 'C' weighted measurements from day one and identified the problem well before the villagers set upon them with torches and pitchforks.

[AcousticScience]

From memory, my room system at maximum the two bass reflex Kappalite 3012lf are hitting about 125dBC, although I can get it up to 130 on sine tones. This is a level I would call "ear poppin' bass" because of the sensation of pressure in the canals similar to going through a tunnel in a train.

The mids and highs are turned back on the amp, but probably nearly 105-110dBA to match the subs. This is LOUD! As in turn it up for part of a song just out of curiosity and turn it back down, but it is in a flat. The noisiest nightclub I could take would be about -6 on these figures and I wouldn't want the whole night like that or my ears would ache! For a good loud dance party I would take 10dB off those figures. For a decent pub foreground dance music or wedding disco I would take 15-20dB off those figures.

Mids and highs are what damage the ears more easily, bass is what annoys the neighbours (unless you're outside then it's both!)

[bmf]

The OSHA noise level standards are for constant levels or time weighted averages. I just finished helping our safety department with sound level testing in our shop. We fitted multiple employees with time/level monitors and I was very surprised at the results. People working 8 to 10 hour shifts near or at machines and tools that generated levels above 115 didn't always exceed the OSHA exposure standard of 90. Every split second of no sound or low level sound brings the average down considerably. Adding in breaks and lunch times had most of the employees averaging in the mid to high 80's. We based our shop standard on the NIOSH guidelines (85) and required hearing protection in most of the areas anyway. Anything over 125 is now recommended for 0 time exposure without hearing protection by OSHA which means any employee in a club above this level should be offered hearing protection by the employer.

[CoronaOperator]

Anything over 125 is now recommended for 0 time exposure without hearing protection by OSHA which means any employee in a club above this level should be offered hearing protection by the employer.

If you hit 125 db on the "A" scale for any length of time you won't have to worry about employees, or customers either as there won't be any. They would be running out of your building holding their ears in pain. 125 on the C scale on the other hand is just where the bass starts to get interesting. Maybe enough for rock and roll but for EDM that is just where the fun starts.

Red Rock Amphitheater has the following noise limits: 105 dBA, 125 dBC measured at front of house during all hours. They did this to thwart complaints from town folk who live nearby. During the 2014 season those limits only came into effect after a certain time. They kept data logs of all shows of that year and had they been in place (noise limits during all hours) there would have been 368 infractions! Which pretty much means every show there exceeded those limits several times a night during the 2014 season. The loudest recorded was Bassnectar @ 138 dBC measured at front of house . Have a look at the data compiled and nicely laid out here. Pages 15 -17 list all the shows and the number of minutes they were above certain dBA levels and the number of minutes they were above certain dBC levels (measured at front of house) along with how many noise complaints they received and the level of annoyance indicated by the complainant. Gives you an idea of the levels various genres usually play at. If you look at the levels of annoyance you could probably get a feel for what kind of music the town folk like and dislike as well as which way the wind was blowing and weather or not their was cloud cover that day.