Wireless Microphones...Mic Input or Line?

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chrisj360
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Wireless Microphones...Mic Input or Line?

#1 Post by chrisj360 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:24 am

I recently was gifted three wireless microphones and 2 pre-amps along with a bunch of other stuff from my work when they were upgrading their A/V gear.

I emailed the manufacturer for the manuals because I can't find them online. Plugging them into the pre-amp set to mic level and they seem to come in too hot. Line level input seems better where I can actually use the gains on the pre-amp versus when in the mic input I can barely have the knobs (both channel & master) turned up. Two of them connect to one box and that box has an volume/attenuator knob. The third does not. All three have the same sound when going into the pre-amp.

Models: Factor wm-2uhf-pro & wm-1uhf http://www.factorelectronics.com/docs/w ... _specs.pdf

I have no experience with mic's beyond hopping on one at the end of the night at the bar to shout our "last call" and "get out meow!"

Thanks in advance,

Chris
2 x 21" T30's with Lab12's
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Bruce Weldy
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Re: Wireless Microphones...Mic Input or Line?

#2 Post by Bruce Weldy » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:50 am

chrisj360 wrote:I recently was gifted three wireless microphones and 2 pre-amps along with a bunch of other stuff from my work when they were upgrading their A/V gear.

I emailed the manufacturer for the manuals because I can't find them online. Plugging them into the pre-amp set to mic level and they seem to come in too hot. Line level input seems better where I can actually use the gains on the pre-amp versus when in the mic input I can barely have the knobs (both channel & master) turned up. Two of them connect to one box and that box has an volume/attenuator knob. The third does not. All three have the same sound when going into the pre-amp.

Models: Factor wm-2uhf-pro & wm-1uhf http://www.factorelectronics.com/docs/w ... _specs.pdf

I have no experience with mic's beyond hopping on one at the end of the night at the bar to shout our "last call" and "get out meow!"

Thanks in advance,

Chris
Turn down the output on the unit and stay in the mic input on the board.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Wireless Microphones...Mic Input or Line?

#3 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:53 pm

You shouldn't need pre-amps, just plug them direct into your board. Since they have balanced XLR outputs that's what you should use, into the mic inputs. Adjust the receiver output level and board input gain as required.

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Re: Wireless Microphones...Mic Input or Line?

#4 Post by BrentEvans » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:59 pm

Before you go counting your blessings... according to the spec sheet these mics operate at 600mhz and above. If they are above 698mhz, they are not legal to use in the US (and have been for several years). If they are between 604 and 698mhz, they will be illegal to use very soon, and will very likely be unusable due to interference sooner than that. T-Mobile is already deploying these frequencies on their towers. There are a couple of gaps in there which will remain legal and technically usable, but will still likely have lots of intermod interference.


Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
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Re: Wireless Microphones...Mic Input or Line?

#5 Post by NukePooch » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:02 pm

BrentEvans wrote:Before you go counting your blessings... according to the spec sheet these mics operate at 600mhz and above. If they are above 698mhz, they are not legal to use in the US (and have been for several years). If they are between 604 and 698mhz, they will be illegal to use very soon, and will very likely be unusable due to interference sooner than that. T-Mobile is already deploying these frequencies on their towers. There are a couple of gaps in there which will remain legal and technically usable, but will still likely have lots of intermod interference.


Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Very good point. I've got the same issue/concern with the wireless mics I have, as well as the ones @ my church. I know it's just a matter of time before someone tries to send a text and blows up my mics with digital noise.
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Re: Wireless Microphones...Mic Input or Line?

#6 Post by BrentEvans » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:00 pm

NukePooch wrote:

Very good point. I've got the same issue/concern with the wireless mics I have, as well as the ones @ my church. I know it's just a matter of time before someone tries to send a text and blows up my mics with digital noise.
It's worse than that, believe it or not. Modern cell devices continously connect with towers. Combine that with a general increase in noise floor due to high output on the tower side, and you have a near continuous squelch problem.

Now is the time to replace this stuff. Sennheiser and Shure (among others) are offering rebates, but they're paltry in comparison to the prices of the products. I just set up a dealership with MiPro because of their excellent pricing even without rebates.. plus it's something that isn't in every big box.

Anyway... churches need to start budgeting NOW to replace any critical wireless systems. The first 600mhz capable phones are already in the stores.
99% of the time, things that aren't already being done aren't being done because they don't work. The other 1% is split evenly between fools and geniuses.

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Re: Wireless Microphones...Mic Input or Line?

#7 Post by Bruce Weldy » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:05 pm

All of my mics are wireless.


Right up until I plug the cable in.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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Re: Wireless Microphones...Mic Input or Line?

#8 Post by BrentEvans » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:11 pm

Bruce Weldy wrote:All of my mics are wireless.


Right up until I plug the cable in.
Aren't you special.


:mrgreen:

Wireless has a place, as does wired. Wired isn't without its problems... bad cables, broken leads in snakes, cable spaghetti on stage...

In general, I wire instrument mics except for acoustic guitars, which sometimes get a bodypack if they move around a lot, and have wireless vocal mics, unless the stage setup NEVER changes. It's easier to reconfigure wireless.
99% of the time, things that aren't already being done aren't being done because they don't work. The other 1% is split evenly between fools and geniuses.

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Re: Wireless Microphones...Mic Input or Line?

#9 Post by Bruce Weldy » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:07 pm

BrentEvans wrote:
Bruce Weldy wrote:All of my mics are wireless.


Right up until I plug the cable in.
Aren't you special.


:mrgreen:

Wireless has a place, as does wired. Wired isn't without its problems... bad cables, broken leads in snakes, cable spaghetti on stage...

In general, I wire instrument mics except for acoustic guitars, which sometimes get a bodypack if they move around a lot, and have wireless vocal mics, unless the stage setup NEVER changes. It's easier to reconfigure wireless.
They have a place, just not in the stuff I do. And you will never cross an individual mic cable on my stage. I use stage snakes and have many different lengths of mic cables to keep from having a mess. I'm a bit anal about doing things right. Not always easy with a ton of acts coming through....thank goodness that I rarely ever do those shows.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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Re: Wireless Microphones...Mic Input or Line?

#10 Post by BrentEvans » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:49 am

Bruce Weldy wrote:They have a place, just not in the stuff I do. And you will never cross an individual mic cable on my stage. I use stage snakes and have many different lengths of mic cables to keep from having a mess. I'm a bit anal about doing things right. Not always easy with a ton of acts coming through....thank goodness that I rarely ever do those shows.
It definitley depends on the environment. Dealing with wireless is almost a neccecity in church sound, for instance. I don't know many preachers that will carry around a 58 on a wire. With modern worship styles you often get 8-10 people singing on mic simultaneously... that's a lot of cables... and if they start moving around , things get tangled up quickly. Wireless definently helps there.

And... it comes with its share of headaches and expenses. I own about 20 wireless systems, almost half of which are 600mhz. Fortunately I don't have a lot of money in those, and they have paid for themselves, but it's still going to be financially hard to replace them. I probably won't until I have to, but that time is fast approaching. I already have church clients having problems.
99% of the time, things that aren't already being done aren't being done because they don't work. The other 1% is split evenly between fools and geniuses.

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Re: Wireless Microphones...Mic Input or Line?

#11 Post by Bruce Weldy » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:30 am

BrentEvans wrote:
Bruce Weldy wrote:They have a place, just not in the stuff I do. And you will never cross an individual mic cable on my stage. I use stage snakes and have many different lengths of mic cables to keep from having a mess. I'm a bit anal about doing things right. Not always easy with a ton of acts coming through....thank goodness that I rarely ever do those shows.
It definitley depends on the environment. Dealing with wireless is almost a neccecity in church sound, for instance. I don't know many preachers that will carry around a 58 on a wire. With modern worship styles you often get 8-10 people singing on mic simultaneously... that's a lot of cables... and if they start moving around , things get tangled up quickly. Wireless definently helps there.

And... it comes with its share of headaches and expenses. I own about 20 wireless systems, almost half of which are 600mhz. Fortunately I don't have a lot of money in those, and they have paid for themselves, but it's still going to be financially hard to replace them. I probably won't until I have to, but that time is fast approaching. I already have church clients having problems.
Yeah, I worked in a church for a couple of years.....all the preachers used wireless headsets and there was one handheld. The preacher's mics were attached to 'em, so they kept up with 'em. The handheld ended up in all kinds of places.....it was often used when I wasn't there.

And don't even get me started on wireless guitar systems.....actually, I should say - guitar/bass players who insist on using wireless guitar systems and don't maintain them or put new batteries in them. Then I'm trying to chase down the problem in the middle of the third song.

Was once mixing in a local club here. During soundcheck, the bass player was getting a really weak, scratchy signal. I started trouble-shooting the cables, direct box, his amp......finally asked him when he last changed the battery in his active bass........he said, "what battery?" Another problem solved....that shouldn't have been a problem in the first place.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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Re: Wireless Microphones...Mic Input or Line?

#12 Post by chrisj360 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:45 am

BrentEvans wrote:Before you go counting your blessings... according to the spec sheet these mics operate at 600mhz and above. If they are above 698mhz, they are not legal to use in the US (and have been for several years). If they are between 604 and 698mhz, they will be illegal to use very soon, and will very likely be unusable due to interference sooner than that. T-Mobile is already deploying these frequencies on their towers. There are a couple of gaps in there which will remain legal and technically usable, but will still likely have lots of intermod interference.


Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
Doh!

Thanks for the info & heads up.
2 x 21" T30's with Lab12's
2 x 28" T30's with Lab12's
2 x OTop12 with Deltalite 2512

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Re: Wireless Microphones...Mic Input or Line?

#13 Post by BrentEvans » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:23 pm

Bruce Weldy wrote: And don't even get me started on wireless guitar systems.....actually, I should say - guitar/bass players who insist on using wireless guitar systems and don't maintain them or put new batteries in them. Then I'm trying to chase down the problem in the middle of the third song.

For the life of me, I do not understand the guys that insist they have to use wireless and then lean (physically speaking) on their amp for the whole show. They could use a 6 foot cable and have too much. Wireless guitars / basses can be useful if the player is active enough in the show that they are roaming the stage quite a bit, especially if they're wearing ears, but even then, it's often not necessary.

Bruce Weldy wrote: Another problem solved....that shouldn't have been a problem in the first place.
You can't fix stupid, man. And musos often do stupid in spades.
99% of the time, things that aren't already being done aren't being done because they don't work. The other 1% is split evenly between fools and geniuses.

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Re: Wireless Microphones...Mic Input or Line?

#14 Post by NukePooch » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:52 am

BrentEvans wrote: Anyway... churches need to start budgeting NOW to replace any critical wireless systems. The first 600mhz capable phones are already in the stores.
Believe me, I've been preaching, for sure. :lol:
We just moved into a new building, and cash is tighter than normal.
Church has 3 Senn mics out of the danger zone, and the rest of the mics plus in-ears in the 600MHz band. I've already had interference on the IEM's, so I've put those out of commission. When the mics drop, the worship leader (Pastor's wife) will no longer be able to let her daughters sing... I can imagine we might find the money for new mics shortly thereafter.
4 Jack 112L- 3012HO, melded array
2 Jack 112 (bought), straight array
17.5 wide AutoTuba with Infinity 860w
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Re: Wireless Microphones...Mic Input or Line?

#15 Post by NukePooch » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:56 am

BrentEvans wrote: With modern worship styles you often get 8-10 people singing on mic simultaneously... that's a lot of cables... and if they start moving around , things get tangled up quickly. Wireless definently helps there.

Sheesh, I've got 6 singers that can braid mic cables together while standing still. Still haven't figured out how.
:roll:
4 Jack 112L- 3012HO, melded array
2 Jack 112 (bought), straight array
17.5 wide AutoTuba with Infinity 860w
6 Wedgehorn W6 w/ Panel Mount Piezos
2 T48 Slims (15" wide) with 3012LF

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