Looking for an amp recommendation

Is this amp OK?
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zpro
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Location: Québec, Canada

Re: Looking for an amp recommendation

#31 Post by zpro » Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:57 am

Hello seistres and thanks for the input.

Would you recommend I even sell my dvx driverack PA I purchased for 280cad in order to get a minidsp?

Why?

I would consider this, as I can probably sell the drive rack for more than I paid for it.

Many thanks for the input!

SeisTres
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Location: Dallas, tx

Re: Looking for an amp recommendation

#32 Post by SeisTres » Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:04 pm

zpro wrote:Hello seistres and thanks for the input.

Would you recommend I even sell my dvx driverack PA I purchased for 280cad in order to get a minidsp?

Why?

I would consider this, as I can probably sell the drive rack for more than I paid for it.

Many thanks for the input!
If you are able to sell it for not at a loss, yes, I would get the miniDSP. Once you get familiar with REW, the mini dsp give you 6 parametric eq on each output which are all set with code from the REW measurements. It also has 9 parametrics for the inputs, all the low/high pass filters you will need, delay, individual channel attenuation(volume sliders if you will), and the best part about all of this is that is controlled on right on your computer.

This is extremely convenient for me as all I need to do is connect through usb and tweak everything throuhg the UI then just save it and any setting I've used in the past. Also, it comes with an external volume knob which is very convenient as opposed to having to have everything at fulll gain and then having to use the internal volume contorl of the device.

Not only that, but you can actually EQ each of the subs individually (the mains too of course) and send them their own respective signal. Not saying you have to run them stereo, since you can also do this with mono subs and only eq them differently.

Anyway, i'm rambling now. However, do checkout the minidsp and some of their info before you sell anything. If you have any questions I'll be around.
Built:6 t39, t18, 4 Jack10, 2 autotuba, 2 SLA,2 wedge, 2 TT, 2 Tritrix, curved sla, 2 otop212, 2 SLA pros, Ported 8" sub, 2 ported 210, dual ported 8" sub

zpro
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Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:23 am
Location: Québec, Canada

Re: Looking for an amp recommendation

#33 Post by zpro » Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:20 pm

Very interesting.

I will get back to this after the sun goes down, beautiful outside right now enjoying the summer while it lasts! 8)

Thank you for the input though, greatly appreciated.

:hyper:

zpro
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:23 am
Location: Québec, Canada

Re: Looking for an amp recommendation

#34 Post by zpro » Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:03 pm

Ok so I have looked into the miniDSP.

One problem I am encountering is that I do not believe I am competent enough in EE and electro-acoustic eng. to know what to do with something like it.

I am just trying to be honest here, I am not too sure what "FIR" filters are and much of the jargon I saw thrown around concerning the miniDSP in about 3 minutes of reading is absolutely frightening to me :D . (just being serious here so you know what kind of person you are dealing with...)

That being said, I am nearly always willing to learn slowly but surely in order to maximize the performance of something and am also at heart a DIYer who has a passion for doing things myself using open source and unrestricted design. I can see the miniDSP as perfectly embodying this and am somewhat disappointed I was not exposed to it before pulling the gun on the DBX PA, although it does not seem all that bad either. The fact that PA cannot communicate with a computer is a major downside when compared to the miniDSP, but I also assume that that would not be a limiting factor necessarily if I were to stick with the drive rack.

Which product from miniDSP would you recommend specifically? I have extensive experience doing soldering work, that does not intimidate me.

Just in case anyone wanted the TLDR version to give me advice: I am using 2 mains (Statement II, Jim Holtz) and 2 subs (THT LP 36"), 2 amps for the mains (mono each, Technics SE-9060) and one amp for the 2 subs (can be mono or stereo one channel each, Bryston 3b). Preamp is Technics SU-9070. System is used exclusively for stereo music listening, all kinds of weird music, but also a significant amount of classical and jazz.

Will I be able to use a microphone with miniDSP? I do not really have a sound card I can use for the mic.

How does the DAC in the miniDSP compare to my macbook pro retina (late 2013)? (I quite enjoy the sound of my mac, and am wondering if I can bypass the DAC stage in the miniDSP if it were inferior)?

Could I not simply use a reference mic and my computer with software such as Dirac RCS? A crossover of some kind is necessary?

Anyone else feel free to pitch in! Keep in mind I am somewhat of a beginner at this, layman's terms are appreciated (not that I am not interested in learning about this, quite the contrary, I just need something within grasp in order to progress...)

Many thanks for the input! :clap:

(Sorry if my english is poor)

Bruce Weldy
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Re: Looking for an amp recommendation

#35 Post by Bruce Weldy » Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:15 pm

Being a prosound guy, that's where I tend to go on any kind of 2:1 system....that's just my background.

I did some looking at the miniDSP after Seis mentioned it. You don't have to built it - they have 'em ready made.....however, I don't think they do a very good job marketing to average folks....I was even having a hard time trying to figure out what would be appropriate.

I'm sure it is a very good way to handle a stereo setup. Is it any better than a driverack? Maybe in the right hands. Would a driverack be easier for a novice to handle? I think so. The fact that it doesn't hook up to a computer means nothing....it IS a computer, so who cares?

The driverack has a graphic EQ on the input plus parametrics on the outputs....I'm sure you can get it dialed in (I doubt that you'll touch the PEQs....the graphic will be more than you've ever used at your house, I'm sure).

I'm not really arguing for the driverack.....if the miniDSP had come up before, I'd have probably not even joined the conversation as I'm sure it's a great tool....just not one I've used.

You certainly have the option of setting up the driverack that you've bought and trying it out. If it isn't what you want - sell it.....not like it hasn't already been used, right?

There's more than one way to skin a cat in this business. Either direction will get the job done better than you probably ever accomplished in the past.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

zpro
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Location: Québec, Canada

Re: Looking for an amp recommendation

#36 Post by zpro » Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:13 pm

Thanks for the input Bruce, I tend to agree with you and am not sure I would notice the difference between a well installed drive rack vs a well setup minidsp. I do not know though, as I stated previously I am quite incompetent :( .

I am open to any more advice and would consider a minidsp if someone can do a proper job of convincing me.

I do understand that the differences may be somewhat redundant, but would still like to hear a bit about why the minidsp may be better. I am also interested whether going through the process of selling the drive rack in order to finance the minidsp is really worth it (i personally doubt it :confused: ).


Further info:

-setup should not move very often (I will be a student for the foreseeable future, may move for MSc or Phd)
-setup may be used on rare occasions at events
-if the minidsp allows me to essentially use a mic to fully automate the process it is big selling point
-how trustworthy is the auto eq contained in the drive rack pa

Thanks again! Really appreciate the input... :hyper:

Bruce Weldy
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Re: Looking for an amp recommendation

#37 Post by Bruce Weldy » Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:12 pm

zpro wrote: -if the minidsp allows me to essentially use a mic to fully automate the process it is big selling point
-how trustworthy is the auto eq contained in the drive rack pa

:
How trustworthy? It works just like any other RTA. You tell it the kind of curve you want and it manipulates the GEQ until the curve is achieved.

If you are going to take it out occasionally, then I'd definitely use the driverack. No computer is needed to run the auto EQ and you can save the settings for the next time you take it to the same place. The auto EQ is all on the front panel (even the input for the mic)......and it's rack mountable like your amp.....stick it all in a rack and moving from place to place will be much easier.

But again.....you own it. Use it and see how it works. If you aren't happy, you can sell it and move on. I've got three of 'em and am considering one more......I guess I'm ok with 'em.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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Tom Smit
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Re: Looking for an amp recommendation

#38 Post by Tom Smit » Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:53 pm

I have read good reviews on the MiniDSP, and it has joined forces with REW on certain models. REW stands for Room Eq Wizard and is a free software program at HomeTheaterShack. A USB mic (purchased at MiniDSP, or separately) is used to measure the speaker response, REW then computes the correct EQ adjustments and sends it to the MiniDSP module. One can also do manual EQ adjustments in the MiniDSP via computer.

A plug-in is also required which provides adjustments for EQ, shelving filters, cross-over filters, phase, and time delay.

About FIR, I lifted this from their site... https://www.minidsp.com/applications/ds ... -filtering

One more savvy than I can make a suggestion about which model to get.
TomS

SeisTres
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Re: Looking for an amp recommendation

#39 Post by SeisTres » Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:45 am

Yeah, I had the same experience when I was first looking into it as well.

But not to worry, all you would need is the basics which is the 2x4 (2 inputs, four outputs) and the 2.1 plugin. This is what I personally run.

About the FIR, don't worry about anything there. It is along the same lines as explaining the advantages and disadvantages of class D amps vs class AB - way too much information yet the end result simply being class d is more efficient, while class ab mostly cleaner.

Also, I did forget to mention that I use a mixer to run my measurement mic. For that, you would need either an usb measurement mic or some kind of interface (be it usb or line-in) for an xlr mic. That was my bad.

As for comparing between the two, the minidsp provides more control, and much a more efficient set up (once you know how use it with REW). For example, the room will cause very abnormal peaks that the graphic eq cannot possibly correct as graphic eq points are preset in both frequency and width. This is where the parametrics with high values come in, they correct very odd curves. The other advantage is it works directly with REW. The REW software is very powerful and will give just about anything you need for running speakers. The way it integrates with the minidsp is that after you run measurements and the eq filter correction, it gives you a code which you copy/paste into the minidsp interface. That's it, just copy/paste and all the filters it calculated are transferred.

A word of warning though, all this I'm describing does have a steep learning curve, but it's worth it once you get your sound system sounding exactly to your liking.

But as Bruce recommends, try the dbx as it already there, and if your are content with the results, then there is no need to put in the extra effort. Personally, I was never happy with my system until about a year after I got my minidsp. I took me a while, but in the end it paid off.
Built:6 t39, t18, 4 Jack10, 2 autotuba, 2 SLA,2 wedge, 2 TT, 2 Tritrix, curved sla, 2 otop212, 2 SLA pros, Ported 8" sub, 2 ported 210, dual ported 8" sub

zpro
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Location: Québec, Canada

Re: Looking for an amp recommendation

#40 Post by zpro » Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:34 am

Thank you Bruce, Tom and Seistres. Interesting read on FIR filters...

I will stick with the drive rack for now and will post a new thread once I install my system. I will keep the minidsp in mind and if the opportunity to sell the drive rack comes up I will probably do it.

Will not be until September/beginning of semester.

Thank you all once again, I truly appreciate all the input. :clap: :D

zpro
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:23 am
Location: Québec, Canada

Re: Looking for an amp recommendation

#41 Post by zpro » Sun Aug 07, 2016 1:53 pm

Sorry for the double post...

I have managed to sell the drive rack pa and mic.

Now looking into buying either the minidsp 2x4 or the HD version.

Is the minidsp UMIK-1 a good mic for this kind of application?

Any other recommended mics? I am planning on using REW with the minidsp and mic.

Any thoughts on the HD 2x4 vs. non HD? I do listen to 24bit 192khz music sometimes...

Many thanks!

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Tom Smit
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Re: Looking for an amp recommendation

#42 Post by Tom Smit » Sun Aug 07, 2016 8:56 pm

Aw, why not? Using the UMIK mic should be fine. MiniDSP wouldn't have it if it were second rate, IMHO. I have absolutely no experience with it but my rationale is that if they are providing various units to control EQ, et al, then they should have a very reasonable measuring device.
TomS

SeisTres
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Re: Looking for an amp recommendation

#43 Post by SeisTres » Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:36 am

I would pass on the HD since it is double the price, but if you really want that to go the extra mile it might be worth it for me. I did some blind tests when I was into recording and I honestly couldn't tell a difference even between a 192kb mp3 vs Wav file, much less anything beyond that. However, if you can pick it up, then the HD would be the best route as it has both types of inputs.

I'm pretty sure the mic they offer is better than the one I use which is the Dayton emm-6, so I wouldn't be too worried about since my dayton works just fine. However, I got my dayton for $40 and already had the cables mixer, if you do not, then the usb mic would the best for you.
Built:6 t39, t18, 4 Jack10, 2 autotuba, 2 SLA,2 wedge, 2 TT, 2 Tritrix, curved sla, 2 otop212, 2 SLA pros, Ported 8" sub, 2 ported 210, dual ported 8" sub

zpro
Posts: 49
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Location: Québec, Canada

Re: Looking for an amp recommendation

#44 Post by zpro » Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:40 am

OK perfect, thank you both! :clap:

I will keep you posted.

zpro
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:23 am
Location: Québec, Canada

Re: Looking for an amp recommendation

#45 Post by zpro » Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:31 pm

One more question:

Any bluetooth receiver recommendations?

I am planning on this:

Macbook > Bluetooth receiver (digital out) > minidsp HD (acts as preamplifier, dac and dsp) > two mono amps for speakers and stereo amp for subs

I have looked at both the audioengine b1 and the auris blume, not sure if the digital outs on those are compatible with TOSLINK or USB in on the minidsp HD...

Would anyone recommend against using the minidsp as the preamp (instead of the technics su9070)? I think this would be great, making my entire setup much simpler. I could even use an IR remote for volume if using the minidsp as preamp (with the su9070 I have to get up everytime to make a change...).

Many thanks! :hyper:

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