Clone amp... or, a Lab for your Labs...

[Rick Lee]

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Audio-Po ... 77815.html

All the discussion you could care for:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1334237/lab-g ... amplifiers

They also make this:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Professi ... 23531.html

[BrentEvans]

Very interesting.

I've bought on Aliexpress before, but nothing that large. If, however, it is what it looks like... might have to try one.

[Hackomatic]

I've also purchased a few things from Ali . . . mostly bulk LEDs. I admit being tempted at those prices, especially since I'm in the market for another Protea 3.6. But for big ticket items like these, what happens when you need tech support, or a new module, etc. Service after the sale is a HUGE question mark here.

[Rick Lee]

I've never bought one but I'm tempted also. I've only brought it up once with a customer. He wanted name brand stuff but even though he had a big budget he couldn't afford the real deal. I had offered him two of these with an extra as standby. He ended up going with used amps.

I've used Ali before and have been pleased. Shipping times have varied considerably. A week or two on most items. However, I ordered a tablet earlier this year and it arrived from Hong Kong within 36 hours with regular shipping.

[Grant Bunter]

Interesting!

There's quite a push here within the industry (ie from the importers/distributors and retailers) to attempt to quash knock off imports (mainly from China) into Australia, more so with known brands.
The consensus is, that while the items look the same, invariably they don't perform the same, which degrades hire opportunities, ie "I've heard those cabs before and they didn't sound good" (when the commenter didn't know what they heard was in fact made from knock off components), and the reputation of the genuine gear.

A comment about service has been mentioned, but warranty has not.

Still, to be fair, in that that regard, if I ship in genuine brand name product from overseas, I have warranty issues anyway. Errr well, I shouldn't say issues, there's no issue, I have no warranty lol...

I guess it's like most things, if you want to buy knockoffs based on pricing, and take the punt, then you have to take what may go with your decision.

Intrigued to know how these amps pan out...

[88h88]

Like a couple of others above I've looked but not touched. When the Ashly was mentioned in another thread I went to check out the prices and found an Aliexpress link along with a few less questionable shops selling it.

At the price difference it's tempted to pick one up 'just to see' but I've refrained thus far.

[Hackomatic]

I'm REALLY teetering now . . .

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ashly-pr ... 86981.html

[Rick Lee]

I've read through the thread on the other forum on the amps and over a three year period they seem to be doing well. Some have had problems but they also had problems with the name brand stuff too. Testing is showing that they put out major power. Some have used them to power weekend festivals and they said they had nary a problem.

Software with the Ashley might be a problem. This is the message I received from them today: Our Protea 4.8SP is the 4 in and 8 output digital processor,its internal components and feature are same as original ASHLY. We will send the software with it, but our processor couldn't use the original software. Our FB-14K and FB-10KQ power amplifiers are selling very well in US, as their sound quality and reliability are same as the original Labgruppen.

I've asked for a better explanation- not sure if they're saying they have their own software or that it can't be used with a computer. They have screen shots of it so I'm assuming it has some sort of software.

[Hackomatic]

Hey Rick . . let me know if you get an understandable response. No working software WOULD be a deal breaker.
thx.

[Rick Lee]

Well, they just sent a long email with a price list. Should be a little cheaper ordering directly from them. I gave them my state and zip and asked for shipping costs on the 14K and 10KQ. They do have software for the Ashley: I will send the CD with 4.8SP, you could download the software from it, then you could control it by the computer.

Oops. She answered my email already. Definitely cheaper ordering directly from them.

[bitSmasher]

Given how wary people are of posting details from BFM plans, I'm suprised this blantant copy of a product hasn't been criticised yet.
One word describes these: fake.
As for "professionals" that charge money for running these in their rigs: fake too.

[Rick Lee]

I'm not here to defend them other than to say, "Hey, this might be an interesting alternative!". I don't own one but may one day.

That said, of course they're "fake". And someone running them in their rig as the "real" thing is unscrupulous. I could never sell them as part of an installation without full disclosure.

What's interesting however is according to that other thread that's three years old is that they have legitimate output and pretty much seem to be holding up under heavy use.

That they're getting away with copying the design has been discussed in the other thread. Apparently the Chinese think it's good to copy a design. Are they wrong to think that way? On principal I'm not too sure- we all want "better". I think our system in the U.S. is decent- if someone invents something new they have X number of years to profit off it before others can build the exact thing. Sometimes it goes too far and the big companies squeeze out the competition. Because I live here business wise I've been raised to think it all comes down to patent and according to that thread LabGruppen's patent has expired.

What's the moral obligation here? That an item is made in my country? That boat left the harbor a long time ago. Anything else? Oh yeah, copying somebodies design. Wait, I won't be buying anything if that's the case. Everything's a copy. BFM's are copies. Front loaded horns have been around forever. I don't see any patent pending on anything here. Yes, there is intellectual property. Maybe Bill could patent the melded array or the curves in the DRs. It would be a long road I imagine. He has done a great job of juggling all the compromises to come up with some excellent designs. He's written detailed plans. I believe in them and want to build brand recognition because I'm an authorized builder. However, any one of us could download free software or blow the dust off some old books and design a horn that's almost identical to a BFM.

Amps? They're pretty much all made in China. At least Sanway seems to be trying to make a good copy. BTW, they're selling the amps with their name on the front. They'll send the other logo if you request it.

[Hackomatic]

I agree with what Rick has stated on this. Frankly, I'm not sure any manufacturer has a design they haven't "lifted" certain architecture from . . It's just some companies go to greater lengths to put window dressing on their products to hide the design they've "borrowed" and implimented into their package . . Behringer . . not so much!

If you think Crown doesn't have QSC amps torn down on their R&D bench or vice versa . . HA! Years ago I went behind the scenes at Harris Corporation Broadcast Division and saw their R&D lab . . Hmmm . . wouldn't ya know, I saw the main competitions product on the bench, torn down to basically the component level to see what made it tick.

It's a fact of life . . . there will be copies and clones and blatantly replicated 'fake' products at every turn.