Amp(s) for small venue

Is this amp OK?
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harquahalas
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Re: Amp(s) for small venue

#16 Post by harquahalas » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:11 pm

Actually, the stage will be 13' deep. I should be able to leave 18" under the stage.

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DJPhatman
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Re: Amp(s) for small venue

#17 Post by DJPhatman » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:41 pm

Then you should build T39. Loaded with the 3012LF, they beat the T45 in volume (SPL) but lose a few Hertz in extension. Since this sounds like it will be a performers stage, you do not want low extension. (T30 and T45 are basically identical in response)



You see that 6dB difference at 50Hz? that is equal to twice as many cabs. That mean 2 T39 are as loud as 4 T45 at 50Hz.

I recommended OT12s over TLAH Pro in your other thread. Easier build, a LOT less expensive.



There is no chart for the TLAH Pro, but the SLA Pro is close enough. The TLAH Pro is 6 drivers, the OTop12 and the DR200 or DR250 are 1 driver per cab. If you have woodworking experience and can read and follow the plans, build DR200 or DR250. If you don't have any experience, or don't have a lot of time, build OmniTop 112.
I know money often seals the deal, but seriously, quality is an investment, not an expense... Grant Bunter
Accept the fact that airtight and well-braced are more important than pretty on the inside. Bill Fitzmaurice

harquahalas
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Re: Amp(s) for small venue

#18 Post by harquahalas » Wed May 09, 2018 11:32 am

Alright. It's time for me to get amps for this sound system. Right now, based on what I've read, price and availability, I'm looking at a Crown XLS1000 for the two Wedgehorn 10s with deltalite 2510s. Another XLS1000 for the two TLAH PROs and a Crown XLi1500 bridged for the two T39s with Kappalite 3012LFs. Also looking at the DBX Driverack PA2.

Please let me know if anyone thinks any of these are under or over powered. One thing I'm a little confused on, the DBX takes the signal from my mixer and then goes out as low, mid and highs to the amps. The Wedgehorn and TLAH have their own high and low pass filters. So I should be running a separate amp for each set of speakers and how does that work with the low, mid and high outputs?

Thanks :)

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Re: Amp(s) for small venue

#19 Post by Grant Bunter » Wed May 09, 2018 3:22 pm

harquahalas wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 11:32 am
Alright. It's time for me to get amps for this sound system. Right now, based on what I've read, price and availability, I'm looking at a Crown XLS1000 for the two Wedgehorn 10s with deltalite 2510s. Another XLS1000 for the two TLAH PROs and a Crown XLi1500 bridged for the two T39s with Kappalite 3012LFs. Also looking at the DBX Driverack PA2.

Please let me know if anyone thinks any of these are under or over powered. One thing I'm a little confused on, the DBX takes the signal from my mixer and then goes out as low, mid and highs to the amps. The Wedgehorn and TLAH have their own high and low pass filters. So I should be running a separate amp for each set of speakers and how does that work with the low, mid and high outputs?

Thanks :)
Have you built everything yet?

Amps:
I would go XLS 1500 for the WH10's. More headroom. TLAH Pro's, what drivers?
The XLI1500 specs don't show a 4 ohm load capability when bridged, so it's out.
The XLI 2500 should be fine with one T39/channel though.

Don't get to fussed about using the DBX PA2 yet.
You'll end up using one low output for subs, and two mid outputs for the TLAH Pro's if running in stereo...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 (melded array) with March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" BP102 , 2 x 28" 3012lf.
WH8: x 3 with melded array.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

harquahalas
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Re: Amp(s) for small venue

#20 Post by harquahalas » Wed May 09, 2018 3:52 pm

Haven't built yet. I have all of my parts from Leland and have picked up my birch ply.

Alpha 8As for the TLAH PRO.

OK. So maybe need 1500 for the TLAH as well?

Any cheaper but still reliable options? System will be stationary, so older iron amps are OK weight wise.

I've been looking for local used amps.

harquahalas
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Re: Amp(s) for small venue

#21 Post by harquahalas » Wed May 09, 2018 3:54 pm

I was also reading about Crest Audio 2.0 and 3.0 here on the forum, but those seem to be almost nonexistent on the used market.

harquahalas
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Re: Amp(s) for small venue

#22 Post by harquahalas » Wed May 09, 2018 4:05 pm

Would the XLS-802 be too much for the wedehorn or TLAH. Maybe these discontinued ones are the way to go with my budget.

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Re: Amp(s) for small venue

#23 Post by harquahalas » Wed May 09, 2018 6:10 pm

Wow! I talk too much. Anyway, there's a set of 3 amps here locally that might be perfect for me if I can get the seller to drop their price down into my budget. He has 2 QSC RMX2450 and 1 QSC PLX3402.

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Re: Amp(s) for small venue

#24 Post by CoronaOperator » Thu May 10, 2018 2:39 am

For an install on a budget consider the Behringer iNuke series amps. They are inexpensive, reliable, light weight, and sound great. The Inuke 3000 series puts out ~49 volts/channel, the 6000 series ~97 volts. A very versatile amp is the nu4-6000 which is 2 nu-3000's in one chassis. It gives you 49 volts x 4 channels or you can bridge any 2 channels for 97 volts output.

To convert volts into watts the formula is watts = volts squared / impedance. So for the nu 3000 @ 49 volts at 8 ohms you have 49x49/8 = 300 watts. 49 volts at 4 ohms you have 49x49/4= 600 watts. The nu 6000 @ 97 volts at 8 ohms you have 97x97/8= 1176 watts, etc.

QSC are very nice but $$$$, on a budget I would put my money on other things like microphones and decent mic stands (k&m) and good xlr cables. Amplifiers these days are commodity items as far as sound quality goes - they all sound the same. More expensive ones come with universal power supplies (80-260 volts), ethernet conectivity for remote control, low voltage tolerable, quick turnaround for service, etc and other features that touring professionals demand because they jump around from venue to venue and don't know what to expect when they get there, but for an install are pointless and a waste of money.
Built:
17" width 10" driver Autotuba
2 x 29" width dual Lab12 Tuba60
6 x DR250 2510/asd1001
In progress:
2 x DR250 2510/asd1001
For best results, point the loud end of the array towards the audience

Grant Bunter
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Re: Amp(s) for small venue

#25 Post by Grant Bunter » Thu May 10, 2018 3:36 am

An RMX 2450 would be ample for 1 xT39 per channel, and alllow limiting with e driverack.
So it's an option dependent upon price.

The PLX 3402 has to much power for your purposes...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 (melded array) with March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" BP102 , 2 x 28" 3012lf.
WH8: x 3 with melded array.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

Bruce Weldy
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Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: Amp(s) for small venue

#26 Post by Bruce Weldy » Thu May 10, 2018 8:44 am

Your first amp line up is just fine with the exception of the XLi1500. An XLS1500 is capable of bridging at 4 ohms (I run 3 sets of two T39s on 3 of those amps.....have for years).

The XLS1000 is plenty to run the monitors and the tops.

The Driverack will utilize the Lows and the Highs in a two-way setup. If you can find a used PA, PA+, or PX - it will do everything you need, unless you just want to have wi-fi access that the PA2 gives you.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

harquahalas
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Re: Amp(s) for small venue

#27 Post by harquahalas » Thu May 10, 2018 12:09 pm

Thanks for the extra tip on the DBX, Bruce! OK, so I think I will get a QSC GX5 for the subs. Between the Crown XLS1000 and the QSC GX3 for the monitors and tops. From your previous suggestion, I think the GX3 would be a better option as it's closer to the XLS1500, but not bridgeable, which I don't think I will need. The GX3 I can get for a little cheaper, but if you think the XLS1000 would be better, the difference is nominal. Thanks guys!

harquahalas
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Re: Amp(s) for small venue

#28 Post by harquahalas » Thu May 10, 2018 3:26 pm

Just snagged a DBX PA for $140 shipped off Reverb :)

Bruce Weldy
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Re: Amp(s) for small venue

#29 Post by Bruce Weldy » Thu May 10, 2018 5:22 pm

harquahalas wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 3:26 pm
Just snagged a DBX PA for $140 shipped off Reverb :)
Good deal!

It's best to stick with all Crowns or all QSC if they are going to be in the same rack. They have different airflows. Mixing them will create a loop of hot air circulating through all the amps - not good.

I would go with the Crown XLS over the GX series simply because the GX3 and 5 weigh about 15 pounds more each.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

harquahalas
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:18 pm

Re: Amp(s) for small venue

#30 Post by harquahalas » Thu May 10, 2018 5:54 pm

Well, I just had my offer accepted for a brand new iNuke 6000 for $300 shipped. Thought it would be nice to save that extra rack space. I can get a brand new 3000 for $218 shipped. So I guess I should do that to keep them matchy matchy. Unless I should consider the iNuke 1000......Or, I could get another iNuke 6000 in case I want to expand down the road. I was budgeting $600 for amps, so I'm good either way.

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