Subwoofer advice for a new media room

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Trippigs
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Subwoofer advice for a new media room

#1 Post by Trippigs » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:06 pm

Hello to all.....I am new here and am pleased to have found yall.
We are building a new house and about to get it in the dry. I am excited to have a dedicated media room which is 20' long, 15' wide and 10' tall. Will have Klipsch Cornwalls for the fronts, Klipsch KG4s for the rear and a Klipsch Heresy for the front center. This leaves me with another Klipsch Heresy and a Klipsch KS5-C5 in surplus. Currently have a modest older Denon 5.1 AVR. I suppose I could buy a 7.1 AVR receiver and use all my speakers. I would appreciate your advice on which horn loaded sub would be a good match for my loudspeakers. I plan to place the sub inside cabinetry which limits the physical size to something like 35" tall by 24" deep by ~36" wide (max width is not established yet). The Cornwalls and the center speaker will be inside the same cabinetry. I mainly listen to rock music but do enjoy a good loud booming movie from time to time. My woodworking skills are limited but I have some resourceful friends! So, please advise away......

CoronaOperator
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Location: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada

Re: Subwoofer advice for a new media room

#2 Post by CoronaOperator » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:23 pm

Hi, welcome to the forum!

One of the issues with your plan is that the performance of subwoofers varies greatly with its location in the room. Placed in the wrong spot and performance will be horrible, move it to a new location and the subwoofer will come to life. Your room is 300 sq feet and a typical subwoofer takes up about 4 sq ft. That gives you 300/4=75 possible locations for the sub in the room. That means your cabinet location only has a 1 in 75 chance of being the best location for your sub. Before you commit to building a sub into the cabinet, take a sub - any sub, borrow one if you have to, and try it out in that location first. Walk the room, especially at the listening location and see how it sounds. If it sounds good then go ahead and build into your cabinet. If it doesn't sound good there then try different locations. Murphy's law usually says that where you want to put it and where it sounds good are 2 different spots.
Built:
17" width 10" driver Autotuba
2 x 29" width dual Lab12 Tuba60
6 x DR250 2510/asd1001
In progress:
2 x DR250 2510/asd1001
For best results, point the loud end of the array towards the audience

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Subwoofer advice for a new media room

#3 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:56 pm

CoronaOperator wrote: Murphy's law usually says that where you want to put it and where it sounds good are 2 different spots.
Not quite. Where it looks best/is most convenient/your wife will let you put it is always where it sounds the worst. Besides, you can't smooth room response with only one sub. You've also got some formidable mains. A pair of THT or THTLP would be appropriate.

Trippigs
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Re: Subwoofer advice for a new media room

#4 Post by Trippigs » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:49 pm

Your sub placement math is hilarious and quite logical to boot! Cant wait for this exchange.....Honey, I have 75 choices for locating the sub...is that OK? All of the cabinetry is on the front wall and the subwoofer was to be low to the floor about in the middle of the wall....Cornwalls on either side, big TV above and center speaker above all that. The cabinetry will have the space referenced above so I can sorta test the sound with a Definitive Technology Powerfield 12 sub which I already have. What little piece of electronics will I need to measure the sub performance around the room? Planning to install grill cloth if front of all the front wall speakers for a clean look. Thanks for the feedback

CoronaOperator
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Re: Subwoofer advice for a new media room

#5 Post by CoronaOperator » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:29 pm

Trippigs wrote:What little piece of electronics will I need to measure the sub performance around the room?
Your ears should work just fine for that. The differences aren't arbitrary, it will be night and day. However like Bill said, you should have 2 subs spread out in that room to smooth room nodes (hot and dead spots). With room modes you can literally be shaken to pieces and the person 2 seats over on the same couch feels nothing.

Haha, you like my math? That's the same math that explains why when you throw a deck of cards into the air they never land in order in a nice perfect pile. It's not that it's impossible, it's just that there are so many other ways the cards can land that it'll be awhile before you see that outcome.
Built:
17" width 10" driver Autotuba
2 x 29" width dual Lab12 Tuba60
6 x DR250 2510/asd1001
In progress:
2 x DR250 2510/asd1001
For best results, point the loud end of the array towards the audience

Trippigs
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:18 pm

Re: Subwoofer advice for a new media room

#6 Post by Trippigs » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:16 pm

OK....we are making good progress. Now to decide on a THT (15") or a THTLP (15"). Placement of the THT would require the exit mouth to be directed toward a side wall of the enclosing cabinetry... maybe 12" between the two. I have enclosing cabinetry space for the THTLP with a side exit mouth directed toward the listening room. Both would be hidden with grill cloth.
Not sure if the sideways THT positioning works.....would you please advise???

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Subwoofer advice for a new media room

#7 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:33 pm

Trippigs wrote: Not sure if the sideways THT positioning works.....would you please advise???
The direction the mouth faces makes absolutely no difference.

Trippigs
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Re: Subwoofer advice for a new media room

#8 Post by Trippigs » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:22 pm

That is promising! I fretted that the THT mouth directed right toward a "wall" would present problems related to back pressure, reflected sound waves, etc. Now, just how close could the mouth be to the enclosing cabinet wall without creating problems? Closing the ~12" distance covered above will save cabinet room for my old vinyl record collection! Thanks Bill

Trippigs
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Re: Subwoofer advice for a new media room

#9 Post by Trippigs » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:08 pm

I forgot to ask another question about the THTLP. Does it come in three sizes (18" or 20" or 24") to accommodate a 15" driver as the Speaker Hardware flat pack order form suggests? I have room for something larger than the advertised 18" high *72" long *15" deep. Could go up to 24" deep and still fit behind my cabinetry which will have a 24" deep silica countertop. As I have learned here...a larger mouth size is positive!

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Tom Smit
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Re: Subwoofer advice for a new media room

#10 Post by Tom Smit » Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:43 pm

18" and 72" are two constants, the only thing that changes is the width (which you quoted as 15"). A THTLP, loaded with a 15" driver can be as wide as 36" (35" internal).

I believe that Speakerhardware only goes as wide as 24" is because it makes the most use out of a 4'x8' sheet. Perhaps also, they have templates for the 3 sizes as options, or just for simplicity. The cab can be anywhere between 18" and 36" in width for a 15" driver.
TomS

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LelandCrooks
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Re: Subwoofer advice for a new media room

#11 Post by LelandCrooks » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:17 am

Too hard to ship.
If it's too loud, you're even older than me! Like me.
http://www.speakerhardware.com

Trippigs
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Re: Subwoofer advice for a new media room

#12 Post by Trippigs » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:17 am

Tom Smit wrote:18" and 72" are two constants, the only thing that changes is the width (which you quoted as 15"). A THTLP, loaded with a 15" driver can be as wide as 36" (35" internal).

I believe that Speakerhardware only goes as wide as 24" is because it makes the most use out of a 4'x8' sheet. Perhaps also, they have templates for the 3 sizes as options, or just for simplicity. The cab can be anywhere between 18" and 36" in width for a 15" driver.
Nice....this helps me make a decision which leads to working with my carpenter. I believe I have narrowed down from a world of subwoofers to a 24" THT or a 24" THTLP. Need to confirm with Bill that he has 24" THTLP plans.Thanks so much.

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Tom Smit
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Re: Subwoofer advice for a new media room

#13 Post by Tom Smit » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:35 am

The plans include whatever width that you want to go with. :clap:
TomS

Trippigs
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Re: Subwoofer advice for a new media room

#14 Post by Trippigs » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:40 pm

Tom Smit wrote:The plans include whatever width that you want to go with. :clap:

Great news! I just spoke with my home-builder contractor who said his cabinet guy was a true craftsman and comfortable with using all kinds of adhesives, brads, nails, etc. The THTLP will take the place of some finished cabinetry so switching them out might be a financial push. Essentially I will have a 8' * 20" * 20" space in which to place a 6' * 20" * 18" THTLP. I will still have 8' of cabinetry with shelves sitting on top of the THTLP...plenty of room for vinyl records. Bill explained that the THTLP exit mouth location did not make any difference so I think I will go with the standard end exit and place to THTLP in the center of the above mentioned 8' space....then cover the entire space with grill cloth.
Tom...thanks for the feedback.
Last edited by Trippigs on Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Subwoofer advice for a new media room

#15 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:45 pm

Trippigs wrote:I just spoke with my home-builder contractor who said his cabinet guy was a true craftsman and comfortable with using all kinds of adhesives, brads, nails, etc..
Beware of 'true craftsmen'. So long as he follows the plans to the letter you're OK, but these types tend towards the "I know what I'm doing, I don't need to follow plans" mindset.

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