SLA Crowd Size specs?

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tvent
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:29 pm
Location: Helena, AR

SLA Crowd Size specs?

#1 Post by tvent » Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:07 am

On many of the different product pages, a suggested # of cabinets to crowd size is offered.
I don't see this on the SLA Pro product page and was just wondering.

I have a gig coming up, it is a memorial dedication.
Expected crowd size is 350.
There will be formal speakers, a keyboard player and Bass player, and a choir... maybe with a solo singer.
The crowd will be under a tent. I forget the dimensions, but 40' wide and 60' deep come to mind.

I was just wondering if a pair of 4x6 SLA Pro's supplemented with a pair of T39's would suffice?
I was about to start building a 2x6 to stack with it, but thought i might just come here and ask before I used up that time on the 2x6's when i could really use it to be doing something else.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Tim
Built:
4 x WH10 melded
4 x WH8 melded
2 x Jack15 melded
2 x Simplex 12 w/BGH-25 for Bass
1 x Simplex Tiltback (powered PPA800DSP) for Keys
2 x SLA Pro
Bought:
6 x T39 20" 3012LF loaded

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Charles Jenkinson
Posts: 1085
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:25 pm
Location: Manchester, UK

Re: SLA Crowd Size specs?

#2 Post by Charles Jenkinson » Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:33 am

It's said that the 4x6 SLA Pro is about as loud as a DR200. That said, two pairs of DR200's don't do the pro-rata crowd size that 1 pair does - they do more. If it's to do with wave-front integration, 1 pair of 4x6 SLA Pro's may project better than 1 pair of DR200's. You'd probably be ok with the stacked 2x6 and 4x6 in that space,for that size of indoors / covered venue. Subs are not supplementary, they're required, since the SLA response drops off at approx. 100Hz.
2xJ12L (3012HO) switchable/melded
2xT30

Words&graphics - Audio&Acoustics - Hardware&DSP; 3 different paradigms.

tvent
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:29 pm
Location: Helena, AR

Re: SLA Crowd Size specs?

#3 Post by tvent » Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:54 am

Yeah, Originally there was no bass player so i thought just the tops would suffice with just the formal speakers at the podium, the choir, and a keyboard player playing "Piano & String" type stuff... but as is common here, they added something last minute and in this case it was a Bass Player - which changed the scope ENTIRELY for this particular job.
I won't be surprised if when i show up, there is a 5 piece band. LoL. So, DEFINITELY bringing a pair of subs (and i'll have an extra pair in the truck ;) )

I'll need to build the 2x6's as i don't have them on hand (but i do have all the parts, as 2 pair of 2x6's are on my list of BFM projects i've not completed.) These are certainly not typically considered "difficult" in the BFM grand scheme of things... but time is a big deal at the moment.

The event I'm asking about here is not until next Sunday - so plenty of time to PL some 2x6 SLAP's together, except I have rehearsals starting Tuesday night for two nights, then we take that particular show on a little mini-tour starting Thursday which basically gives me Today and Monday night to construct them (with the possibility of skipping work Tuesday or Wednesday to button them up... but i probably need to show my face there too.) Not too bad, except we've got about 999,999 other things to get ready by then - so given that, What do y'all think?
My help isn't available until Wednesday evening - so to complicate matters, I'm flying solo on all the prep work.
Built:
4 x WH10 melded
4 x WH8 melded
2 x Jack15 melded
2 x Simplex 12 w/BGH-25 for Bass
1 x Simplex Tiltback (powered PPA800DSP) for Keys
2 x SLA Pro
Bought:
6 x T39 20" 3012LF loaded

tvent
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:29 pm
Location: Helena, AR

Re: SLA Crowd Size specs?

#4 Post by tvent » Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:00 am

Still interested in opinion on the above, but just for the record - for breakfast this morning I made eggs, coffee, and a 2x6 SLAP cut sheet and am out making with the sawdust on this wonderful and Easy Sunday morning.

Currently 71 degrees and a wonderful morning to be outside ripping Baltic Birch! (My front porch is my wood shop. LoL)
Built:
4 x WH10 melded
4 x WH8 melded
2 x Jack15 melded
2 x Simplex 12 w/BGH-25 for Bass
1 x Simplex Tiltback (powered PPA800DSP) for Keys
2 x SLA Pro
Bought:
6 x T39 20" 3012LF loaded

Grant Bunter
Posts: 6121
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:12 am
Location: Ilfracombe Queensland Australia
Contact:

Re: SLA Crowd Size specs?

#5 Post by Grant Bunter » Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:29 pm

tvent wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:54 am
Yeah, Originally there was no bass player so i thought just the tops would suffice with just the formal speakers at the podium, the choir, and a keyboard player playing "Piano & String" type stuff... but as is common here, they added something last minute and in this case it was a Bass Player - which changed the scope ENTIRELY for this particular job.
Well, it's always nice to have the problem of turning down rather than struggling to turn up!
So I think it's a good plan to build a pair of 2 x 6's.
Here's hoping you can get them done.

Now, about the subs.
Why is it you had keys playing already, and didn't think subs immediately?
Left hand on a standard keyboard can go lower than a standard 4 string bass.
Since you need to HP a pair of T39's at 45Hz, you're not going to get fundamentals anyway, but you do want the harmonics reproduced...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 (melded array) with March 2012 plans. 2 more under way with CD horn
T39's: 4 x 20" BP102 , 2 x 28" 3012lf.
WH8: x 3 with melded array.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

tvent
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:29 pm
Location: Helena, AR

Re: SLA Crowd Size specs?

#6 Post by tvent » Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:14 pm

Grant, ordinarily I would definitely knee-jerk and grab subs when I hear keyboard player, but I know this guy personally and he didn’t think the arrangement needed it originally.

But I agree... better to turn down than NOT be able to turn up.


I have the 2x6’s and grills constructed.
Currently waiting on 2nd Bondo touch-up coat to dry and then apply some flat black then Duratex. Grills are complete. I’m definitely gonna build a 2nd pair of the 2x6’s. They are so cute! 😎 (and as solid as a brick... umm... well, you know. 🤣)
Built:
4 x WH10 melded
4 x WH8 melded
2 x Jack15 melded
2 x Simplex 12 w/BGH-25 for Bass
1 x Simplex Tiltback (powered PPA800DSP) for Keys
2 x SLA Pro
Bought:
6 x T39 20" 3012LF loaded

tvent
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:29 pm
Location: Helena, AR

Re: SLA Crowd Size specs?

#7 Post by tvent » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:17 am

https://photos.app.goo.gl/T2wp112c66jEudVU9

Not really a "build thread" per se, but i did take a few snapshots along the way if anyone wants to see.
I probably have about 13 hours invested in the build, but i did have to make a dash up to the office to grab my hole saw set (15 minutes) and took a few quick eating breaks along the way. Except for me getting on of the baffles backwards and having to fix that (which was my fault, regardless of how aware i was of that possibility), the build went VERY smooth.

I'm pulling 2 ferrite Alpha's from each 4x6 and re-purposing them into these 2x6's and have some Neo's on the way to populate 2 into each 4x6 to help with the weight. I plan to do the same as time and money allows with a 2nd set of 2x6's and have a "best of both worlds" scenario.

Drivers should be here tomorrow! :D

So... I'm thinking 2 subs will be sufficient for this, but should i take 4? I'm thinking that might actually be overkill given the very formal nature of the event... but what do y'all think?
Built:
4 x WH10 melded
4 x WH8 melded
2 x Jack15 melded
2 x Simplex 12 w/BGH-25 for Bass
1 x Simplex Tiltback (powered PPA800DSP) for Keys
2 x SLA Pro
Bought:
6 x T39 20" 3012LF loaded

jimbo7
Posts: 608
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:45 am
Location: St. Louis

Re: SLA Crowd Size specs?

#8 Post by jimbo7 » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:41 pm

Looks nice. I should've had you build mine. It's been a little thing a day process.

How did you do your grill? I looks really clean. Debating cover mine or leaving them exposed, but being so small the tend to look like bookshelf speakers.
BFM builds:
XF212
T24 BP102 24"
2x SLA's 6-5" mids, 9- gt-302's
2x AT 14" MCM 55-2421
TrT 5" MCM 55-2421
AT 18" JBL GTO804
2x OT12 flat array
2x SLA Pro 2-Alpha 6's 2-Goldwoods
2x T39 24" 3012lf

tvent
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:29 pm
Location: Helena, AR

Re: SLA Crowd Size specs?

#9 Post by tvent » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:05 pm

Jimbo7, I just use Pet Screen from off the shelf at our local walmart anymore.
The 2x6 SLAP's are so small, I literally used some scrap pieces that i almost threw away a few weeks ago on a de-cluttering spree (see kids, sometimes there are advantages to being a hoarder ;) )

I build a rectangle frame, just square ends... no miters, to fit within the speaker with about an 1/8" clearance.
(Note: on my Simplex ported builds, I do miter the corners to expose the triangle corner ports - I like the look even if there is a potential that something could get crammed into a port by a child or drunk (I've noticed similar logic, but I've been both a child and a drunk so i feel qualified to make that statement ;)
I put just a dab of PL at the end of the pieces as the touch and staple them together on one side with an air-powered staple gun that shoots regular Arrow staple gun staples. Usually 3/8" staples for the frame, then 1/4" for the Screen. I put about two staples per joint. It's really weak at this point.
Then i flip it over and put two staples into each joint on the other side and that makes it reasonably strong and stiff.
Once the PL cures, it's actually pretty tough with no bracing or corner supports.
Then I just wrap it in Pet Screen and staple to taste.

I did have one fall off of a Jack 15 once. It's a bit more complicated since the sides come in at an angle and I didn't want to use cleats. One corner got progressively weak after that so i bought some of those little flat "L" braces off the shelf and screwed them to the back. It's still working fine.

Most of them, I get close enough so that they are just pressure fit - but i'm my own roadie so I try to be careful during transport.
If I had help, I'd probably spring for the metal grills, but I really like the look of the flush fit Pet Screen.
I usually have to grab a chisel to pry the grill out.

Most of the builds I've done, I make the grill frame 1" wide, but for the SLAP's I reduce that to 3/4" so it stays out of the way of the woofer cone & surround as much as possible. I just rip scrap Baltic Birch for this, or rip non-scrap if i don't have any scrap at that time. It's proven to be pretty good and people seem to be very complimentary about it.

Thanks for the compliments, btw!
Built:
4 x WH10 melded
4 x WH8 melded
2 x Jack15 melded
2 x Simplex 12 w/BGH-25 for Bass
1 x Simplex Tiltback (powered PPA800DSP) for Keys
2 x SLA Pro
Bought:
6 x T39 20" 3012LF loaded

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MulletOver
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:02 pm
Location: Clinton, IN
Contact:

Re: SLA Crowd Size specs?

#10 Post by MulletOver » Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:04 pm

Curious how this gig went?
I usually run four T-39’s with a pair of 4x6 SLAP’s. The SLAP’s will cover 350 people easily if mounted high enough.
(8) 19" T39s (4xLab12, 4xDelta12LFA)
(4) SLA-PRO (4x6") Alpha6a
(1) Simplexx 10" wedge

tvent
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:29 pm
Location: Helena, AR

Re: SLA Crowd Size specs?

#11 Post by tvent » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:13 am

MulletOver wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:04 pm
Curious how this gig went?
It's been a crazy couple of weeks, but now that i have a moment to catch my breath I wanted to report back.
First off, I am LOVING the little 2x6 SLAP's in conjunction with the 4x6.
I've been using them "spiraled" for these gigs.

I've been doing 2 different gigs with this in this time-frame:
1) 5 piece Blues/R&B band with 3 singers and a narrator for a Civil Rights history program that ties in story, narration, and both traditional and contemporary Blues, Gospel, Spiritual, and R&B.
2) Formal Dedication Ceremony of a Memorial.

The 1st gig was a little "mini-tour" where we did 7 shows across 5 days in different locations around our region.
3 shows were within 24 hours of one another. We were MOVIN' and GROOVIN'! (hard work, but i really enjoyed the challenges it presented.)
We were in large and small rooms, but the basic PA setup was the SLAP's and T39's.
In the largest rooms, we ran 4 T39's, and both sets of SLAP's.
I used a Driverack Venue360 to allow separate feeds to the tops vs. the subs. I find it VERY useful to keep everything out of the subs that doesn't NEED to be in the subs (so no vocal mics, no guitars, pretty much just kick, bass, and keys.)
Instrument wise, we used a Beyer M88TG on kick, 1 Beyer M160 on overhead, M160 on Sax, M160 on Acoustic Gtr, and Senn e609's on each of two guitar amps (just to save space over a 57 and a stand.) Keys and Bass were DI'd.
In the smaller rooms, we ran 2 T39's and sometimes just the 4x6, but added the 2x6's if we felt it was necessary to fill for a close audience.
Monitoring was a mix of WH8's and WH10's, with the powered Simplex Tilt-Back for the keyboard player and the pair of Simplex 12's on Bass duty.
The show gets loud in certain passages. The PA kept up with it fine except in the smallest most reflective rooms where the band alone was too much. We definitely struggled in those spaces to find the right balance. Also, I was never able to get quite what i wanted out of the monitors, but i'll blame that on inadequate setup time in the rooms to get a good EQ on them (although we ran massive amounts of Anti-Feedback suppression on them, often maxing out the full 24 bands of each channel of AFS2)... well that and the fact that our Drummer and Bass Player are both basically deaf and constantly need more and more from their monitors. Bass Player was basically SITTING on the dual Simplex 12's (with 3012LF's) and STILL wanted more and more of his bass in his WH10, plus they need the narrator and singers for dialog cues. That was a challenge in the small rooms since I was getting so much sound in the room from the back sides of their monitors. I need to spend more time with the QSC Amp Navigator software and i guess get some USB to Ethernet stuff happening so I can make those sort of adjustments on the fly from my FOH mix position. That software is REALLY un-intuitive to me, but then again so is the Crown stuff... I have some complaints about the DBX Driverack stuff too, but it's leaps and bounds better than the others.

For the formal event, I ran the combo of the SLAP's again in spiral.
I placed 2 T39's (20") slightly under each side of the stage with their horns protruding out the sides. Since this was an outdoor event, we didn't need to observe the 53 foot spread of the subs and it seemed to work very well. I was EXTREMELY pleased with the low frequency response. It was just nice and warm and put a smile on my face no matter where i was in the audience.
There was a modest stage that held about 25 (15 piece choir, the rest were local/state dignitaries, speakers, pastors, etc.)
There was a 40'x80' tent that held the 350, then there was crowd bleed all around the tent from about half-way back and around the rear.
We were probably closer to 500 in attendance.
Media/Press was setup in the rear and I provided a fixed mix to them via an aux send and then we split it with some of those little Horizon 1x3 splitters (we cascaded 2 of them.)
We setup a podium mic, an additional mic for the keynote speaker (an elderly lady who needed to remain seated for the duration of her speech) and a couple of choir mics. I used Shure Beta 87's for the speakers/podium and some Beyerdynamic M160's for the choir. I again used the Simplex Tiltback (powered) for the keyboard player and had a single cab Simplex 12 for the Bass player (who at the last minute decided not to play Bass and just sing in the choir - but we were prepared.)
We also placed a pair of WH8's at the front of the stage for the choir to hear the keys. I didn't mean to run anything else through them, but i realized half-way through that I did in fact have the wireless 58 that the choir asked for last minute (for their lead & soloists) running through them. We hadn't properly sound-checked for that, but it seemed to be OK.

Maybe someday I'll finish the 4 DR250's I have probably 1/4 of the way started, and I could probably use double that for the outdoor events I'd like to start bidding on, but today I'm VERY pleased with these SLAP's and will definitely build another set of the 2x6's in the near future.
Built:
4 x WH10 melded
4 x WH8 melded
2 x Jack15 melded
2 x Simplex 12 w/BGH-25 for Bass
1 x Simplex Tiltback (powered PPA800DSP) for Keys
2 x SLA Pro
Bought:
6 x T39 20" 3012LF loaded

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