DEQ2496 on mixer insert

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laits
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DEQ2496 on mixer insert

#1 Post by laits » Tue Jan 12, 2016 6:54 pm

Can I run the DEQ2496 on my mixer main inserts, same as an analog eq? Can i still use the rta feature? How do I wire up the cables?
Built 2-OT12 (3012HO); 2-T39 22" (3012LF); 2-T39 16" (3012LF);
2-J12 (DL2512); 2-W8 (Beta 8A)

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BrentEvans
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Re: DEQ2496 on mixer insert

#2 Post by BrentEvans » Tue Jan 12, 2016 8:44 pm

You could, but why not just run it in line?
99% of the time, things that aren't already being done aren't being done because they don't work. The other 1% is split evenly between fools and geniuses.

laits
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Re: DEQ2496 on mixer insert

#3 Post by laits » Tue Jan 12, 2016 11:31 pm

I would like to be able to just look at my mixer output meter to know if I am close to limiter hitting.
Built 2-OT12 (3012HO); 2-T39 22" (3012LF); 2-T39 16" (3012LF);
2-J12 (DL2512); 2-W8 (Beta 8A)

Bruce Weldy
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Re: DEQ2496 on mixer insert

#4 Post by Bruce Weldy » Tue Jan 12, 2016 11:59 pm

laits wrote:I would like to be able to just look at my mixer output meter to know if I am close to limiter hitting.
Use the proper technique to set the limiter and you'll be able to do that.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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dswpro
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Re: DEQ2496 on mixer insert

#5 Post by dswpro » Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:20 am

Since my DCX lives at my amp rack near my stacks, I can never see it during a gig, so I rely on my console meter to let me know if I am at or near the system limit. When I setup the DCX, I use an oscillator and set my mixer output to a visually noticeable point. I use the third yellow light on my master output meter, but you can use any convenient setting which does not overload the DCX input. Then I set the DCX limiter to protect my speakers and keep any higher console output from passing into my amps. I also put a 2:1 compression on my console output ( I use an X32 ) about 6 db below that point so I can hear my mix start to squeeze before I hit the DCX limiters. Then while operating my board I easily can see if I have any system headroom left, and don't have to rely on seeing the DCX. Three years of gigs now with my T39s and Otops and I've never blown a driver.

laits
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Re: DEQ2496 on mixer insert

#6 Post by laits » Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:45 am

That is exactly what I want to be able to do. Know if I am near limiting by looking at mixer output meter. I was thinking if the DEQ was in-line (not using mixer master insert) then if I made an eq bump to account for different rooms, then the mixer output meter and DCX limit light would no longer be in sync. Am I understanding this correctly?
Built 2-OT12 (3012HO); 2-T39 22" (3012LF); 2-T39 16" (3012LF);
2-J12 (DL2512); 2-W8 (Beta 8A)

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Re: DEQ2496 on mixer insert

#7 Post by Bruce Weldy » Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:56 am

laits wrote:That is exactly what I want to be able to do. Know if I am near limiting by looking at mixer output meter. I was thinking if the DEQ was in-line (not using mixer master insert) then if I made an eq bump to account for different rooms, then the mixer output meter and DCX limit light would no longer be in sync. Am I understanding this correctly?
That last thing in line is your limiter....so, the other moves you make further up the line like EQ won't affect your set limit.

While you should get your limiter set properly, you are really overthinking this. Hard limit the subs to protect them. If you do it right, you'll know when you are approaching the limiter with your lights. But, don't get too worried about the lights - use your ears....if it starts to sound distorted - turn it down.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

Grant Bunter
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Re: DEQ2496 on mixer insert

#8 Post by Grant Bunter » Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:17 pm

The DEQ2496 has nothing at all to do with limiting.

That's the DCX2496's job.

As Bruce has been saying, the limiter is the last controlling segment in the DCX prior to the amplifier.
So that nothing you do further up the chain changes limiting.
Built:
DR 250: x 2 (melded array) with March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" BP102 , 2 x 28" 3012lf.
WH8: x 3 with melded array.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

Bruce Weldy
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Re: DEQ2496 on mixer insert

#9 Post by Bruce Weldy » Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:09 pm

Grant Bunter wrote:The DEQ2496 has nothing at all to do with limiting.

That's the DCX2496's job.

As Bruce has been saying, the limiter is the last controlling segment in the DCX prior to the amplifier.
So that nothing you do further up the chain changes limiting.

Hah! I just saw the 2496 and didn't even notice the DEQ in front of it. Still don't want use it as an insert though.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

laits
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Re: DEQ2496 on mixer insert

#10 Post by laits » Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:29 am

I shouldn't have related this question to any limiter setting, that is another topic.

What I am simply asking here is the functionality of the DEQ2496 when used in the main board output inserts. This is how I used to have my old graphic eq setup so I could see the what changes the eq was having on my overall output level from the board. I don't believe this is an uncommon way to use a graphic eq. I wanted to know if anyone had experience with using the DEQ2496 in that fashion (pros and cons).
Built 2-OT12 (3012HO); 2-T39 22" (3012LF); 2-T39 16" (3012LF);
2-J12 (DL2512); 2-W8 (Beta 8A)

Bruce Weldy
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Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: DEQ2496 on mixer insert

#11 Post by Bruce Weldy » Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:47 am

laits wrote:I shouldn't have related this question to any limiter setting, that is another topic.

What I am simply asking here is the functionality of the DEQ2496 when used in the main board output inserts. This is how I used to have my old graphic eq setup so I could see the what changes the eq was having on my overall output level from the board. I don't believe this is an uncommon way to use a graphic eq. I wanted to know if anyone had experience with using the DEQ2496 in that fashion (pros and cons).
Actually, it's not common at all as most inserts are unbalanced. You should always try to keep a balanced signal throughout. Unbalanced signals run -10 and balanced run +4.

There is truly no reason to run an EQ that way.

You haven't mentioned what mixer you have...what are you running?

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

laits
Posts: 140
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: DEQ2496 on mixer insert

#12 Post by laits » Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:35 am

Ok, got it. I will run DEQ in-line. Thanks.

I use either a mixwizard 16:2dx or soundcraft efx8.
Built 2-OT12 (3012HO); 2-T39 22" (3012LF); 2-T39 16" (3012LF);
2-J12 (DL2512); 2-W8 (Beta 8A)

Bruce Weldy
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Re: DEQ2496 on mixer insert

#13 Post by Bruce Weldy » Thu Jan 14, 2016 3:31 pm

laits wrote:Ok, got it. I will run DEQ in-line. Thanks.

I use either a mixwizard 16:2dx or soundcraft efx8.
Those both are definitely using unbalanced inserts.....in fact, balanced inserts are pretty much unheard of...don't know that I've ever seen one...it would require a send and return jack - can't be done on a single TRS jack.

Seems I remember some old mixers that had send and return jacks for inserts.....been a long, long time ago.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

Grant Bunter
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Re: DEQ2496 on mixer insert

#14 Post by Grant Bunter » Thu Jan 14, 2016 3:52 pm

My FOH DEQ is in line between the outputs of my Soundcraft (Spirit 8 or 16) and my DCX.
I have them in the same rack unit, one on top of the other, with very short custom made patch leads.

Over time, some have suggested connecting the two units with the AES facility, to eliminate the DA conversion on the DEQ at output, and the AD conversion on the DCX at input.

I might give it a try soon.

Inserts are unbalanced.

Also, check out your manuals, so you know for certain that your first red light on output meters for both the mixwizard and the EFX8 is actually the same value.
It's not uncommon for different manufacturers to have different reference points on the meters...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 (melded array) with March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" BP102 , 2 x 28" 3012lf.
WH8: x 3 with melded array.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 6409
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: DEQ2496 on mixer insert

#15 Post by Bruce Weldy » Thu Jan 14, 2016 4:30 pm

Grant Bunter wrote:
It's not uncommon for different manufacturers to have different reference points on the meters...

True, so if you plan to use two different boards and this is really important to you, then clone over your setting and make a new setting with a different limiter setup for the other board. Name the setting in the DCX based on the board.....then you'll get the same thing every time.

But honestly, if you are riding on the edge all the time with your system so that you need to know where the absolute max is......you need more system.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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