New Mixer Thoughts

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Guitbusy
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Re: New Mixer Thoughts

#46 Post by Guitbusy »

We us an x32 compact ethernetted to an x32 rack acting as the stage snake. This provides us with a stage snake and an additional board if the need arises as the x32 rack can function as both snake and board (use a computer or tablet for mixing only, no faders) for $1200. Something you might want to think about if you are doing Pro Sound, it is an inexpensive backup should something go wrong with the main board.
1 x Tuba 24 (24"x24"x24")
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heavybdrums
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Re: New Mixer Thoughts

#47 Post by heavybdrums »

Brent I have seen the X32 in use several times, and my impression has been "what an ugly board, where are the controls?". Ok this doesn't really take the cake, and I'm sure if I wound up with one I'd learn to use it well. However I have been holding myself back in regards to Behringer stuff but you just came right out and said what I think;
$100 is a small price to pay not to have Behringer stamped on your device. Si Wins. :mrgreen:


However I might have said "$100 is insignificant in a purchase that can be $2000", but really meant what you said.

And that being said I am the least interested in the X32.
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BrentEvans
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Re: New Mixer Thoughts

#48 Post by BrentEvans »

All of that was kind of directed at your comment about the M32 being your current pick. Just remember... the M32 is the X32 for twice the price. If you don't want the X32, you don't want the M32.
99% of the time, things that aren't already being done aren't being done because they don't work. The other 1% is split evenly between fools and geniuses.

Guitbusy
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Re: New Mixer Thoughts

#49 Post by Guitbusy »

heavybdrums wrote:
$100 is a small price to pay not to have Behringer stamped on your device. Si Wins. :mrgreen:
While I can appreciate many different reasons why someone would and wouldn't like something, if the above is your major reason, you are missing out. $100 is another BFM speaker in my mind. I suspect part of the reason you found yourself on this site is for what I would assume you feel are better sounding speakers than you could (or want to) afford with the big names stamped on them... Behringer fits into that same category, at least the x32 line (and a number of their other products, but not all). You will get no cool points awarded, actually you will get cool points detracted as you state above, but it is about results, right? You can also get stickers printed to say whatever you want for pretty cheap :P
1 x Tuba 24 (24"x24"x24")
2 x Wedgehorn 6
2 x SLA Pro Shorty (2x6)

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BrentEvans
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Re: New Mixer Thoughts

#50 Post by BrentEvans »

Guitbusy wrote: While I can appreciate many different reasons why someone would and wouldn't like something, if the above is your major reason, you are missing out. $100 is another BFM speaker in my mind. I suspect part of the reason you found yourself on this site is for what I would assume you feel are better sounding speakers than you could (or want to) afford with the big names stamped on them... Behringer fits into that same category, at least the x32 line (and a number of their other products, but not all). You will get no cool points awarded, actually you will get cool points detracted as you state above, but it is about results, right? You can also get stickers printed to say whatever you want for pretty cheap :P
You're right, it is about results. Two out of the four X32s I have installed in the last couple of years had failures OUT OF THE BOX and had to be returned for exchange. I'd call that pretty poor results. This isn't about cool points, it's about reliability and service.

$100 doesn't buy a speaker even if you do all the work yourself. If you're in it to get the cheapest of the cheap, sure, buy Behringer. If all you're looking at is the "Features Per Dollar Quotient" then they will score the highest. If you're looking for quality, they'll lose every time.

I have spent years excising Behringer from my portable rig for this very reason. I finally accomplished it this year (I decommissioned a Behringer wedge monitor. Nothing wrong with it... it sounded OK... but it had Behringer on it. Now Midas falls into that category too... which is sad. Uli and Music Group bought Midas and KT for the names. They figured if they stamped "Midas" on their products (and indeed the X32 is "Powered By Midas" according to the silkscreen) it would increase the perceived value. And... it did. It worked. It's still the same poor quality cheaply made crap under the hood. It works... as long as it works.

Moral of the story... cheap isn't.
99% of the time, things that aren't already being done aren't being done because they don't work. The other 1% is split evenly between fools and geniuses.

Guitbusy
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Re: New Mixer Thoughts

#51 Post by Guitbusy »

While I won't argue you have had a bad experience, that isn't the case in my instance, I have had great experiences. More importantly in my mind is the the very positive experiences the x32 has across the many people that I have spoken to when researching it and the wealth of positive results across the Internet. I do understand the difference between cheap and inexpensive. I have no investments in Behringer the company, so it isn't worth my time to argue the point anymore (probably wasn't worth it to argue it at all 8) ), we will have to respectfully agree to disagree on the x32 point. Personal experience is more important in your situation than anything I could say anyway.
1 x Tuba 24 (24"x24"x24")
2 x Wedgehorn 6
2 x SLA Pro Shorty (2x6)

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BrentEvans
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Re: New Mixer Thoughts

#52 Post by BrentEvans »

Argue is such a strong word. :lol:

There are many valid points to be had here. I have a friend who runs a portable sound hobby business on an X32 and big stacks of Bose 802s. Neither are my preference. I go help him sometimes, he comes and helps me sometimes. It's no big deal either way. The thing is... my income relies on my stuff working every time, his doesn't. He has a day job. I do shows with attendance approaching and in the thousands. He does bands in bars mostly, with the occasional small festival.

This is why I am transitioning away from SAC into a real console... one failure is one too much. SAC hasn't hosed a show yet for me like it has for others, but I have had to reboot in the middle of a show once and there have been a couple of close calls other times. I think X32 falls into that category... it works well enough when it works. That's OK for a hobby business if you don't mind wiping the occasional egg off your face, but not for a professional (meaning you do it for a living). This is why I rail against Behringer...
99% of the time, things that aren't already being done aren't being done because they don't work. The other 1% is split evenly between fools and geniuses.

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Chris_Allen
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Re: New Mixer Thoughts

#53 Post by Chris_Allen »

I believe the Midas board is 96KHz.
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Bruce Weldy
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Re: New Mixer Thoughts

#54 Post by Bruce Weldy »

BrentEvans wrote:Argue is such a strong word. :lol:

There are many valid points to be had here. I have a friend who runs a portable sound hobby business on an X32 and big stacks of Bose 802s. Neither are my preference. I go help him sometimes, he comes and helps me sometimes. It's no big deal either way. The thing is... my income relies on my stuff working every time, his doesn't. He has a day job. I do shows with attendance approaching and in the thousands. He does bands in bars mostly, with the occasional small festival.

This is why I am transitioning away from SAC into a real console... one failure is one too much. SAC hasn't hosed a show yet for me like it has for others, but I have had to reboot in the middle of a show once and there have been a couple of close calls other times. I think X32 falls into that category... it works well enough when it works. That's OK for a hobby business if you don't mind wiping the occasional egg off your face, but not for a professional (meaning you do it for a living). This is why I rail against Behringer...
Well said, Brent.

Too often people get caught up in the Ford vs. Chevy. Bottom line is that you have to choose the right tool for the job. I'm in the "stay away from Behringer" camp also. However, from this forum I've read of many good experiences with some of their gear. But, if my livelihood depended on it? No way.

But, as most of us here are weekend warriors, we tend to consider cost as the deciding factor. As long as you know what you are getting into, that's ok. While I certainly watch my costs (that's what brought me here in the first place), there are some things I won't scrimp on.

Find the tool that fits your needs - but be honest with yourself. If you need to wait a month in order to have the funds to get a better piece of gear, then do it.

Heavydrums is doing the right thing - research the gear. Elicit opinions and then go verify what you hear.

Brent is a really good reviewer as he has used a lot of the gear that we discuss. He did an excellent job in comparing the two boards. I didn't see the back and forth as an argument, but rather two products being represented by users who like one or the other. That's good healthy debate and helps everyone here to make more-informed decisions.

Personally, I use Presonus boards........because I like the color. :fruit:

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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Chris_Allen
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Re: New Mixer Thoughts

#55 Post by Chris_Allen »

I'm strongly in the Behringer camp as they have served me very well but went and bought a Soundcraft mixer as I couldn't get past the UI!
Built:
6xDR200, 2xT39, 2xT48, 2xJack110, 1xOmni10.5, 1xAutotuba, 1xT18, 1xSLA Pro, 1xW8, 1xW10

Guitbusy
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Re: New Mixer Thoughts

#56 Post by Guitbusy »

Bruce Weldy wrote:
BrentEvans wrote:Argue is such a strong word. :lol:

There are many valid points to be had here. I have a friend who runs a portable sound hobby business on an X32 and big stacks of Bose 802s. Neither are my preference. I go help him sometimes, he comes and helps me sometimes. It's no big deal either way. The thing is... my income relies on my stuff working every time, his doesn't. He has a day job. I do shows with attendance approaching and in the thousands. He does bands in bars mostly, with the occasional small festival.

This is why I am transitioning away from SAC into a real console... one failure is one too much. SAC hasn't hosed a show yet for me like it has for others, but I have had to reboot in the middle of a show once and there have been a couple of close calls other times. I think X32 falls into that category... it works well enough when it works. That's OK for a hobby business if you don't mind wiping the occasional egg off your face, but not for a professional (meaning you do it for a living). This is why I rail against Behringer...
Well said, Brent.

Too often people get caught up in the Ford vs. Chevy. Bottom line is that you have to choose the right tool for the job. I'm in the "stay away from Behringer" camp also. However, from this forum I've read of many good experiences with some of their gear. But, if my livelihood depended on it? No way.

But, as most of us here are weekend warriors, we tend to consider cost as the deciding factor. As long as you know what you are getting into, that's ok. While I certainly watch my costs (that's what brought me here in the first place), there are some things I won't scrimp on.

Find the tool that fits your needs - but be honest with yourself. If you need to wait a month in order to have the funds to get a better piece of gear, then do it.

Heavydrums is doing the right thing - research the gear. Elicit opinions and then go verify what you hear.

Brent is a really good reviewer as he has used a lot of the gear that we discuss. He did an excellent job in comparing the two boards. I didn't see the back and forth as an argument, but rather two products being represented by users who like one or the other. That's good healthy debate and helps everyone here to make more-informed decisions.

Personally, I use Presonus boards........because I like the color. :fruit:
I brought the argue word in as to what I was doing on the point. I never brought it in as far as what was going on in the discussion. While I agree the discussion has been good, my point was if you are choosing or not choosing simply because it says (or doesn't say) Ford or Chevy on it you are missing out...
1 x Tuba 24 (24"x24"x24")
2 x Wedgehorn 6
2 x SLA Pro Shorty (2x6)

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Chris_Allen
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Re: New Mixer Thoughts

#57 Post by Chris_Allen »

I used to take a lot more risks on brands when I was younger, probably because I was a lot more responsive in terms of time, money and effort.

Now, I'm quite happy for other people to take the risks and join the band wagon when everything has been proven.
Built:
6xDR200, 2xT39, 2xT48, 2xJack110, 1xOmni10.5, 1xAutotuba, 1xT18, 1xSLA Pro, 1xW8, 1xW10

Bruce Weldy
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Re: New Mixer Thoughts

#58 Post by Bruce Weldy »

Guitbusy wrote:choosing or not choosing simply because it says (or doesn't say) Ford or Chevy on it you are missing out...
We should always keep an open mind to new products, but some of us have been doing this a long time and companies like Behringer are going to have to prove that their products will last. Their history is sorely lacking in any long term life of the gear.

There are people who deride Peavey......I will defend Peavey because they have NEVER had a problem with build quality. You may not like the way something sounds, but by golly that stuff lasts forever. You see 20+ year old Peavey powered mixers out there everyday....beat up, dirty, missing knobs....but working.

Find a Behringer that has lasted much past five years and you're lucky. Not saying this to bash Behringer, but they have a lot of bad history to overcome before some of us will take that chance.

That fact that we are even having this discussion is a big step for Behringer.....because in the past, their name wouldn't have even been considered by anyone serious about pro sound....they were considered then as Samson, Sonic, Pyle, etc are now.

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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BrentEvans
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Re: New Mixer Thoughts

#59 Post by BrentEvans »

Chris_Allen wrote:I believe the Midas board is 96KHz.
I challenge anyone to hear the difference. It only matters above 24kHz.
99% of the time, things that aren't already being done aren't being done because they don't work. The other 1% is split evenly between fools and geniuses.

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 8301
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: New Mixer Thoughts

#60 Post by Bruce Weldy »

BrentEvans wrote:
Chris_Allen wrote:I believe the Midas board is 96KHz.
I challenge anyone to hear the difference. It only matters above 24kHz.
Yeah, but that content is pretty important to those making dog whistles.

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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