Setting Limiter on a DBX PX

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y2kindyz
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Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:54 am
Location: MISSION, TX

Re: Setting Limiter on a DBX PX

#16 Post by y2kindyz »

Bruce Weldy wrote:
y2kindyz wrote:Thank you Bruce,

Love this forum

Did you just put in your location? I didn't notice before that you were in the Valley.

Hey Bruce,
Sorry I didn't reply sooner. Yes I am in the valley. I thought I had put in my location a few years ago. I've noticed you are int new braunsfels. There is a great mex Resturant there off of 35. Went there many times while passing thru on our way to Dallas.

djreverse
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:14 am

Re: Setting Limiter on a DBX PX

#17 Post by djreverse »

Sorry, I wanted to chime in and ask a question about the driverack px limiting as well. When setting each limiter should I have my mixer master all the way up to start as well as the channel volume faders? Then adjust the limiters in the driverack to get the most out of my system.

Grant Bunter
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Re: Setting Limiter on a DBX PX

#18 Post by Grant Bunter »

djreverse wrote: Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:29 pm Sorry, I wanted to chime in and ask a question about the driverack px limiting as well. When setting each limiter should I have my mixer master all the way up to start as well as the channel volume faders? Then adjust the limiters in the driverack to get the most out of my system.

Hi, and welcome to the forum :)
Unity on your masters is probably max, but not on your channel strips.
Set your channel strips to 0 (which is usually unity), and gain to where your meters barely flicker red at times.

You never want your meters in the red all the time, or all that's coming out of your speakers will be distorted crap.
Lots of DJ's struggle with that.

Set your limiters using a sine wave through the mixer...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

djreverse
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:14 am

Re: Setting Limiter on a DBX PX

#19 Post by djreverse »

Ok, thanks! I'm running passive with the px, so I just need to make sure my amps are just before clip while setting the limiter I take it.?

Bruce Weldy
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Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: Setting Limiter on a DBX PX

#20 Post by Bruce Weldy »

djreverse wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:47 am Ok, thanks! I'm running passive with the px, so I just need to make sure my amps are just before clip while setting the limiter I take it.?
Need to call a time out here......what are you trying to limit? Your subs? Which ones?

Limiting isn't about your amps clipping, it's about making sure the amp doesn't exceed a set voltage limit....those are two different things.

So, start over and let us know exactly which cabs you are trying to limit. Then we can give you better info on exactly how to do it.....based on the above post, I think you might be looking at this the wrong way.

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

djreverse
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:14 am

Re: Setting Limiter on a DBX PX

#21 Post by djreverse »

Bruce Weldy wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:49 pm
djreverse wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:47 am Ok, thanks! I'm running passive with the px, so I just need to make sure my amps are just before clip while setting the limiter I take it.?
Need to call a time out here......what are you trying to limit? Your subs? Which ones?

Limiting isn't about your amps clipping, it's about making sure the amp doesn't exceed a set voltage limit....those are two different things.

So, start over and let us know exactly which cabs you are trying to limit. Then we can give you better info on exactly how to do it.....based on the above post, I think you might be looking at this the wrong way.
To start I have a stanton scs4dj multimedia mixer, a crown xls1500 running 2 jbl jrx115 top cabs, a qsc plx3602 running 2 jbl mp418s subs. I have everything running separately as each channel is being used per speaker/sub. Wasn't sure about amp linking so I didn't go that route because I don't want to cross anything. I have each amp connected to the driverack and out to the speakers and subs. Someone had mentioned to me on another forum about only running the qsc and subs through the driverack, and using the built in dsp from the crown by itself, and it would sound better like that but I'm also unsure about using that method. I don't have any clipping happening, but if I crank my master and or sliders up on the mixer I would for sure hit clip on the amps. I'm trying to get my system to where if I were to turn it up all the way, I wouldn't hurt anything, but also have good sound throughout the system. I believe I have the crossover set correctly through the driverack, but I want to protect everything while getting more sound by using the limiting. Does that make more sense? Or am I looking at this all wrong? Any help would be appreciated, as I'm not using the wizard. My setup doesn't sound bad, but I know it can be louder than what it is. I just want to protect everything the correct way.

Bruce Weldy
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Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: Setting Limiter on a DBX PX

#22 Post by Bruce Weldy »

djreverse wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:02 pm
To start I have a stanton scs4dj multimedia mixer, a crown xls1500 running 2 jbl jrx115 top cabs, a qsc plx3602 running 2 jbl mp418s subs. I have everything running separately as each channel is being used per speaker/sub.
That's fine. Those JRX boxes will fart out long before the subs will if everything is set correctly.
They are pretty harsh in the top end and you aren't going to get a whole lot of volume from them and keep it clean - so, run it up until it sounds bad then back off.

Wasn't sure about amp linking so I didn't go that route because I don't want to cross anything. I have each amp connected to the driverack and out to the speakers and subs.
I assume you mean bridging when you say amp linking....not necessary with those amps.

Someone had mentioned to me on another forum about only running the qsc and subs through the driverack, and using the built in dsp from the crown by itself, and it would sound better like that but I'm also unsure about using that method.
Someone doesn't know what they are talking about. The DSP in the driverack is way more powerful and precise than the one in the Crown (I know, I have 7 of those amps). Stick with what you doing.

I don't have any clipping happening, but if I crank my master and or sliders up on the mixer I would for sure hit clip on the amps. I'm trying to get my system to where if I were to turn it up all the way, I wouldn't hurt anything, but also have good sound throughout the system. I believe I have the crossover set correctly through the driverack, but I want to protect everything while getting more sound by using the limiting. Does that make more sense? Or am I looking at this all wrong? Any help would be appreciated, as I'm not using the wizard. My setup doesn't sound bad, but I know it can be louder than what it is. I just want to protect everything the correct way.
You have all front loaded speakers and you can hear when they start hitting their limit based on how they sound. Limiting does not get you more sound - it keeps you from delivering more voltage to the speakers than you should.

First thing to consider is that rig is not going to be really loud. Those tops do not sound good when they are pushed. The horn is small and the crossover point is very high, resulting in the 15 trying to push the mids all the way up to about 3k if I remember correctly and the tiny, cost-saving driver gets really harsh very quickly. Not putting down your boxes, just telling you like it is. If sound quality is paramount, then you can't push these very hard. Your overall volume has to be determined by the weakest link, and in this case, it's the horn in the JRX.

As far as limiting - that is done with the amps turned all the way up. Send a 60Hz sine wave (test tone) through your mixer until the master output lights are hitting below the red. Then using a voltmeter on the amp outputs (no speakers attached), adjust the limiter on the dbx until your limit is achieved. For your subs, I'd say about 45 volts if you are high-passing around 40Hz. For the tops, I'd go no more than 35 volts using a 1khz tone.

You have to make sure that AFS is turned off on the driverack and that you are using the limiter and NOT the compressor. Do not use soft-knee either.

Once you achieve the voltage on the sub channel - run the fader all the way up and see if the voltage stays where you set it - if so, the go through the same process on the tops.

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

djreverse
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Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:14 am

Re: Setting Limiter on a DBX PX

#23 Post by djreverse »

Thank you so much! Yes I want to limit the voltage to keep from sending too much to my subs and speakers. I did replace the horns to the better titanium drivers. They are pretty loud, just not evenly matched with the subs hitting like they are. Maybe I could turn up the speakers outputs within the driverack a little more? By linking my amps, one had said it is better to have less signals/cables. So he advised me to use the channel link going from my crown to my qsc. I'm using all speakon just to mention. Your help is very helpful and important to me, I certainly appreciate you helping me out. Yes I am crossing at 40hz.

Bruce Weldy
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Re: Setting Limiter on a DBX PX

#24 Post by Bruce Weldy »

You need to define "linking" your amps. If you mean using the internal Y input mode on the Crown, you can do that. If you mean bridging the amps, that's something way different.

Are you running Stereo or Mono?

Won't be able to respond again until tomorrow.....heading out to a show.

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

djreverse
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:14 am

Re: Setting Limiter on a DBX PX

#25 Post by djreverse »

I do believe that is what he was talking about, the Y input within the crown. He was mentioning something about less unwanted noise by using less signals passing through my cables by using less cabling. Said he was old school, and believed less is more. I'm running stereo. That's why I question the link out (meaning mono stereo? I believe) that I don't know much about, and it really confused me lol. I will try and find the post from him and paste it here. Anyhow I hope the show turns out great! Have a good night!

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Tom Smit
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Re: Setting Limiter on a DBX PX

#26 Post by Tom Smit »

@djreverse: run your tops in mono, and your subs in mono. Stereo is not very effective for most listeners unless they are all sitting in the middle of the room. This would mean that you could run one XLR cable from the DSP unit to one channel of your tops amp, and one XLR cable to your sub amp.
TomS

Bruce Weldy
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Re: Setting Limiter on a DBX PX

#27 Post by Bruce Weldy »

Tom Smit wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:28 pm @djreverse: run your tops in mono, and your subs in mono. Stereo is not very effective for most listeners unless they are all sitting in the middle of the room. This would mean that you could run one XLR cable from the DSP unit to one channel of your tops amp, and one XLR cable to your sub amp.
Tom Smit, you are indeed a wise man.....(cuz that's just what I'd say!) :mrgreen:

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

djreverse
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:14 am

Re: Setting Limiter on a DBX PX

#28 Post by djreverse »

If I were to run in mono like you say, what settings should I have on the amps, and or driverack px? Would I still set the driverack to a stereo style setup? I am running 2 subs, 2 top cabs, and 2 amps. So is the second channel then unused? How will I be able to mix my two tracks only using one channel? Or will I still be able to fade from left to right at the mixer? And do I run one cable from the amp to the sub, and another cable from the sub up to my top cab? Do I need to change anything within my speakon cable pin wise? Bruce is helping out through email as well. I appreciate everyone here, I'm trying to learn the most I can.

Grant Bunter
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Re: Setting Limiter on a DBX PX

#29 Post by Grant Bunter »

Bruce will sort you out, so ask him any questions you have.
I can tell from your current responses you are new to this, and that's ok.
Just take little steps until it's all sorted out...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

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Tom Smit
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Re: Setting Limiter on a DBX PX

#30 Post by Tom Smit »

Bruce Weldy wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:48 pm
Tom Smit wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:28 pm @djreverse: run your tops in mono, and your subs in mono. Stereo is not very effective for most listeners unless they are all sitting in the middle of the room. This would mean that you could run one XLR cable from the DSP unit to one channel of your tops amp, and one XLR cable to your sub amp.
Tom Smit, you are indeed a wise man.....(cuz that's just what I'd say!) :mrgreen:
Hah! Yeah, just wise enough to pay attention to the more knowledgeable ones words. :D
TomS

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