Attention StudioLive and Soundcraft SiCompact users...

[Razor]

Rick Lee: I even got to suggest a budget and they're letting me get a keyboard and drumset!

Ah okay, it would have made a little more sense if you had quoted that in your post, as I thought you were addressing the OP.

[Bruce Weldy]

Rick Lee: I even got to suggest a budget and they're letting me get a keyboard and drumset!

While I like the sound of miced drums outside and in larger settings....E-drums are the only way to go in a church, unless you are in a mega-church with a large stage and a thousand people. Controlling volume is always an issue in smaller churches and a live drum kit can just be overbearing.

E-drums are easy to set up, there is no sound check needed, and they can be controlled. Yeah, I know....I'm not a drummer. But, I am a guitar player who leaves the amp behind when playing in that setting because I know it is better for the stage and the FOH. The people in the pews come first - then individual preferences.

My two cents....

[Razor]

Rick Lee: I even got to suggest a budget and they're letting me get a keyboard and drumset!

While I like the sound of miced drums outside and in larger settings....E-drums are the only way to go in a church, unless you are in a mega-church with a large stage and a thousand people. Controlling volume is always an issue in smaller churches and a live drum kit can just be overbearing.

E-drums are easy to set up, there is no sound check needed, and they can be controlled. Yeah, I know....I'm not a drummer. But, I am a guitar player who leaves the amp behind when playing in that setting because I know it is better for the stage and the FOH. The people in the pews come first - then individual preferences.

My two cents....

Yeah, it's really too bad that no one at my church wants E-drums. Would be much easier. Instead we have mic'd acoustic drums in a cage. The cymbals are what get me the most though, they can very easily overpower the entire mix, cage or no cage.

[Tom Smit]

The cymbals are what get me the most though, they can very easily overpower the entire mix, cage or no cage.

+1

[mattaudio]

Drummers should be able to control things on an acoustic kit. E-drums are not acceptable...they don't play the same. You say you play with a modeler instead of an amp. But you're still playing a guitar that feels the same. Most e-drum kits would be the equivalent to using a Guitar Hero guitar instead of an actual guitar.

[Razor]

Drummers should be able to control things on an acoustic kit. E-drums are not acceptable...they don't play the same. You say you play with a modeler instead of an amp. But you're still playing a guitar that feels the same. Most e-drum kits would be the equivalent to using a Guitar Hero guitar instead of an actual guitar.

I agree with you but only to a certain extent.

There are some great E-drum kits out there that are surprisingly similar to playing an acoustic kit, plus they're more versatile because of all of the different sounds you can program on to them. However, it seems that E-drum kits that are that good are also very expensive.

Re: drummers should be able to control things: in a church environment you're often working with volunteers that only play for the services, so they may not have that kind of dynamic control. This is the case at my church. And in our small room (<300 people), it makes a cage an absolute necessity.

[Bruce Weldy]

Drummers should be able to control things on an acoustic kit. E-drums are not acceptable...they don't play the same. You say you play with a modeler instead of an amp. But you're still playing a guitar that feels the same. Most e-drum kits would be the equivalent to using a Guitar Hero guitar instead of an actual guitar.

Put mesh heads on your real drums and use triggers. Best of both worlds. That way you can get the control of the E-drums but still play with the same feel.

My old drummer did that, not because he didn't like playing the E-kit, but because he liked the looks of a real kit.

Please take the paragraph below as an unemotional assessment based on years of experience, not criticism......

Bottom line is.....you either make the decision please yourself or the crowd. That's not a knock - it's a fact. Everything is a trade-off. Same decisions that guitar players make when they haul in a stack of Marshalls to a small club and blow the place up because it's "their sound". Long ago, I put sound ahead of being a guitar player, but that's just me. Whether it's giving up some feel of real heads or giving up the sound of tubes, it's still a question of priorities. And that's a decision we all make as players.

In some environments, we get to bust loose, playing-wise and equipment-wise. In others, we have to make the decision of what we give up to make it sound better for everyone.

So, my advice is to:

Always step back and look at the situation from the viewpoint of the crowd and the soundman....then decide what works best.

Ultimately, the crowd will vote on the outcome of that decision with their feet.

[Rick Lee]

Mattaudio, I already got the drumset, but thanks for the input! If there's any instrument I'm familiar with it's drums and living just outside Nashville I was inundated with choices! Now keyboards are a different story... Brent gave me some suggestions (He must be a REAL keyboard player because they were all out of my price range ) and I went to GC yesterday to mess around on some keyboards but it didn't really help me make a decision.

I am in the process of buying an SL 1642 so pretty happy about that.

[Rick Lee]

Whoa! I just saw the other posts.

Since this thread is really drifting I'll post my .02cents: If you have to use electronic drums then you're not really a drummer. Unless it's the electronic sound you're striving for. Cram a band in a ten x ten foot room and a musical drummer that utilizes dynamics won't overpower anybody.

I have never seen electronic drums used effectively in a church setting- two examples: One was a large Christmas concert with several thousand dollars spent for first call Nashville studio players. The drummer was playing an electronic kit and... you couldn't hear him. You could slightly hear the kick and snare but the stigma of "don't make the drums too loud!" defeated the energy that was present. The other example occurs every Sunday here in town at a larger church- you walk in and the mix is really good; drums are sitting nicely in the mix and they too are being played by one of the best drummers in Nashville so it's very enjoyable. The problem? It still lacks authenticity and you can still hear the clacking of the pads.

No, a real set, properly tuned with hand picked cymbals played by a musical player will always work. A good drummer knows how to make a set "sing" no matter the volume.

[Razor]

Whoa! I just saw the other posts.

Since this thread is really drifting I'll post my .02cents: If you have to use electronic drums then you're not really a drummer. Unless it's the electronic sound you're striving for. Cram a band in a ten x ten foot room and a musical drummer that utilizes dynamics won't overpower anybody.

I have never seen electronic drums used effectively in a church setting- two examples: One was a large Christmas concert with several thousand dollars spent for first call Nashville studio players. The drummer was playing an electronic kit and... you couldn't hear him. You could slightly hear the kick and snare but the stigma of "don't make the drums too loud!" defeated the energy that was present. The other example occurs every Sunday here in town at a larger church- you walk in and the mix is really good; drums are sitting nicely in the mix and they too are being played by one of the best drummers in Nashville so it's very enjoyable. The problem? It still lacks authenticity and you can still hear the clacking of the pads.

No, a real set, properly tuned with hand picked cymbals played by a musical player will always work. A good drummer knows how to make a set "sing" no matter the volume.

And most sound guys would kill for a drummer like that!

As I said in an earlier post, in a church environment you are often working with volunteers who have no musical training, and that only play on weekends.