Ableton Live Users - External signal processing needed?

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Beat Radness
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Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:50 pm
Location: Floyd, VA

Ableton Live Users - External signal processing needed?

#1 Post by Beat Radness »

Hello. New to the forums here, been reading up a lot, but I have a few questions if anyone can help clear up a few things for me. I run ableton suite 8 on macbook for electronic beat production, additionally I use a scarlett 2i2 audio interface to run vocals and guitars through ableton. My question is this. I am building 2 dr200's and a single sub for now (bought plans for t30 and t39, still deciding). I plan to add a second sub down the road. Looking at crown xls1500 or peavey ipr1600 for amps. Would like to run dr's on one channel and the sub(s) on the other. I can setup dynamic processing chains within ableton to filter output audio into low mid and high frequency ranges to act as a crossover with limiters and then route the returns to seperate outputs on my audio interface. Shouldnt I be able to handle all of my signal processing (eq, comp, limiting, etc.) through ableton, pre amp, to safely run my setup, as opposed to using a dbx or behringer unit to handle external processing? Not having the complication and expense of an extra unit is desirable, but I want to make sure I can cover all processing needed to maximize output while maintaining safe levels to the drivers. Anyone using solely DAW processing with the BFM horns?

I am the only person who uses my equipment, so as long as I have my processing setup correctly, and run everything through ableton, as I currently do, this should be safe, no? Thanks for the help.

Bruce Weldy
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Re: Ableton Live Users - External signal processing needed?

#2 Post by Bruce Weldy »

The XLS1500 is fine for the tops, but not enough power if you load your sub with one of the premium drivers. Only 300 watts at 8 ohms...that's only 49 volts and the premium drivers can take 60. I would step up to the XLS2500.

The Peavey is the exact same wattage as the Crown.......same issues.

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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AntonZ
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Re: Ableton Live Users - External signal processing needed?

#3 Post by AntonZ »

Can you use VST plugins in Ableton? I use the freeware Dual Linkwitz-Riley filter for crossover. Works fine for me. Do not adjust with the engine live (loud pops), otherwise it is a set and forget thing. Very nice.

Some form of brickwall limiting is also advised. Limit the max voltage to your cabs. You can hear tops complain and should turn it down a bit from there. Not so for the subs: no audible problems can be heard until you cross the treshold of destruction. That's why the subs need hard limiting. Max voltage for cabs are in the plans.

Both crossover and limiting can be done in software, as long as you know what not to touch while live: you don't want to accidentally reset the brickwall limiter that should be protecting your sub drivers.

Beat Radness
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Location: Floyd, VA

Re: Ableton Live Users - External signal processing needed?

#4 Post by Beat Radness »

Thanks guys. I will look into a bigger amp as recommended. Was hoping to keep it at 1500w as I would like the option to run the setup off a honda eu2000 generator in the future. I've got a 7 channel 400w phonic mixer and some yamaha 12's that I have had for a few years. It was fine for me singing and playing guitar, but is horrendous listening to anything with a wide frequency range as they have no bottom end. So, anything I end up with will be quite an improvement, even if not run at max performance. I was going to be a mackie powered monitor and later an 18" powered sub kind of a guy, so I am super pumped to have found this fantastic wealth of information, picking up baltic birch probably tomorrow and got a table saw unexpectedly as a gift, so right on.

I'll have to do some playing around in ableton. I am on a mac, so I can run au equivalents of vst's. I messed around with a vst conversion plugin a while back, but never got into it. Maybe will tinker that some more and look into the mentioned crossover vst. I'm running isotonik 8 through max for live, so there already a lot going on within a set, I will see if I can work the crossover and hard limiting features into some of my return tracks. Just wanted to make sure I was thinking clearly that this could be done. Much appreciated.

Still considering springing for a dbx driverack or Behringer dcx whatever, but if I could postpone that purchase for a bit it would be nice. I'm a pretty patient deal monger on craigslist and have gotten some great equipment at great prices so far in my slow studio growth.

SirNickity
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Re: Ableton Live Users - External signal processing needed?

#5 Post by SirNickity »

My opinion: I wouldn't do this.

Crossovers and limiting are there to protect your equipment. It's not processing to make it sound pretty (which would be a perfectly valid use of virtual DSP.) The dbx or Behringer stuff is the last thing in the chain before your amps. Nothing that happens at or before your mixer should ever let LF get to your tops, nor should it let signal levels get out of control. Doing this in software is not much of a guarantee. There's still plenty of room for error before the amp.

Just consider: All it takes is one sketchy patch cord between your computer and the mixer to send a nice loud pop to your speakers without voltage limiting, or some full-scale 50/60Hz hum from a partially-plugged in cord going to your tops. :!:

Beat Radness
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Location: Floyd, VA

Re: Ableton Live Users - External signal processing needed?

#6 Post by Beat Radness »

That makes sense. Thanks for the input guys. Definitely dont want to run the risk of damaging drivers. I didnt think about the random noise or program glitch or whatever causing a problem.


Soooo.....Driverack or DCX? Do I need the driverack, is it worth the extra, is will the the dcx cover my needs plenty? Lot to consider putting together a system. This place is great.

-Hank

SirNickity
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Re: Ableton Live Users - External signal processing needed?

#7 Post by SirNickity »

The Drive Rack was worth it to me because the dbx stuff appears to be a lot more solid than Behringer. Though, I have and use my share of Behringer equipment. I've also thrown away some Behringer equipment. Still have every dbx piece I've ever bought though.

At the price, especially if you're on a budget (yeah, who isn't?), the DCX is a perfectly respectable box. A lot of folks here use it, and like it. I would buy one hands down if my only other option was a software plugin. But if I had the coin to spare, I'd get the PA+.

Beat Radness
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Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:50 pm
Location: Floyd, VA

Re: Ableton Live Users - External signal processing needed?

#8 Post by Beat Radness »

Great. Thanks sirnicky. I'll keep scoping for a good price on a secondhand driverack. From reading, it seems like the unit I would prefer, but we'll see how the budget goes. Upgrading drivers, etc, is adding up quickly. Quite an interesting process. Just need to start building and realize that I will be blown away with whatever I come up with.

Beat Radness
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:50 pm
Location: Floyd, VA

Re: Ableton Live Users - External signal processing needed?

#9 Post by Beat Radness »

Thanks everyone for the input. Ordered the dcx2496 and some goodies to build a pair of 3015lf t48's and dr200's. Should be a potent setup that will stomp anything I could have purchased with my budget commercially. Cant wait to get started.

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